Wednesday, March 21, 2012

Further on Quraan burning

http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2012/03/further-on-quraan-burning.html 
Posted at WorldMuslimCongress@yahoogroups.com in response to concerns and question from Mian Waheed and Khalid Faridi.


First of all, I second and endorse the words of Khalid, “Quran is our symbol. And to a Muslim this symbol carries enormous weight and value.” Indeed, it is.  Most of the conflicts start by messing with the symbols and icons of others.

Mian you are right about burial, as the pages may be uncovered years later, as it happened in Yemen, those unearthed pages are being looked at in Germany and there are conflicting reports on that.  There is a new book out called Which Quran? By an ex-Muslim Ibn Warraq, he had copied the pages from different copies and shows them to be different. I have not seen this yet, but I have been called on it. No wonder Hazrat Umar burned several copies of the Quraan that were misprinted (written).

The Afghan rebels desecrated the Quraan before the American soldiers burnt it, they wrote secret messages on the pages of Quraan, no idea what they were, but you are not supposed to alter, or give the appearance of alteration.  Neither one is charitable acts.

Burning may not be the real issue, but disrespect, desecration and denigration is the issue. The behavior is designed to irritate the Muslims and Muslims fall prey to it.

We have several choices to consider:

1. Retribution – Retribution should be addressed directly to the men and women who messed with it. They need to be called in at the court and punished appropriately, if found guilty. Islam presumes one is innocent until proven guilty as does our constitution, only God knows what is in one’s heart until we can extract it from them.

If retribution is not confined to the men and women, then it is inflammatory and wrong. We cannot condemn Afghans, Muslim or Americans for the acts of the individuals. God sets the example of punishment to the individuals. Please remember the Quraan is clear about it; no one bears the burdens of other.

2. Forgiving and turning the other cheek – Prophet Jesus and Prophet Muhammad both have set that example innumerable times – don’t aggravate the conflict, but mitigate it and nurture goodwill. Taif incident is a good example (full story below). What does Quraan say about forgiveness? God’s favorite human is the one who forgives, is it not?  Forgiving disengages one from malice and liberates one to be free.

3. Reaction – Had Muslims not reacted violently across the globe, and followed the example of prophet – hold a prayer meeting, invite the press, and say prayers for the miscreants. You know what that would do? It will not tempt any one, anymore to do such despicable acts; it is no more fun to them, as Muslims will not react.

Here is a piece Imam Zia and I co-authored way back in September 2010.   http://wisdomofreligion.blogspot.com/2010/09/quraan-burning-appeal-to-muslims.html it was also published in Huffington post.

# # #

MikeGhouse is committed to building a Cohesive America and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day. He is a professional speaker, thinker and a writer on pluralism, politics, civic affairs, Islam, India, Israel, peace and justice. Mike is a frequent guest on Sean Hannity show on Fox TV, and a commentator on national radio networks, he writes weekly at Dallas Morning News and regularly at Huffington post, The Smirking Chimp and several other periodicals. His daily blog is www.TheGhousediary.com

Tuesday, March 20, 2012

TEXAS FAITH: Should the ban on political activity by churches be repealed?

Should the federal ban on political activity by churches and religious institutions be repealed – or remain in place? Our Texas Faith panel weighs in – and they don’t agree on the answer. This is a weekly column at Dallas Morning News, addressing the issues facing the nation. http://theghousediary.blogspot.com/2012/03/texas-faith-should-ban-on-political_20.html

MIKE GHOUSE, President, Foundation for Pluralism, Dallas, Texas

As Americans of Republican, Democratic, Libertarian, independent and other persuasions, we are collectively and partially funding religious institutions through tax subsidy, and the least we can expect from them is to remain neutral to each one of us on political matters.

Every American has 1/312 Millionth of a share in such subsidy, why would I, a Republican want my money to go to a church that supports democrats or vice-versa?
As a nation we have to debate the need for giving tax breaks to religious organizations, and why do they need the tax break? We may disagree with Governor Perry on a lot of issues, except the idea that every foreign nation must justify their need for even a dollar to go to them. How does giving a tax break for religious organizations benefit every American indiscriminately?

Dallas Morning News had a similar question a few months ago. Can the Pastor of a Church publicly endorse a candidate without influencing or dividing his or her congregation? That is the fine line that blurs the separation of Church and state.

The fact of the matter is, every one of us is politically inclined towards one candidate or the other; for a majority of us it is an emotional decision. Nearly 2/3rds of Americans have decided through party affiliation who they will vote for – it is a clear choice to them; Democrats or Republicans. It is really the 1/3rd of undecided voters that the parties are vying for.

So the top ten evangelicals ganged up on Romney, simply because of his faith - cloaked in the disguise of not conservative enough. Wouldn’t their congregations follow their lead? The most conservative states are following that lead and giving boost to Santorum. He in turn has followed the bait by going to the extreme and becoming Mullah Santorum.

If we allow any majority to dictate the nation, we will lose the very essence of America; a God’s country where everyone of His creation lives in harmony.

We are not a mobcracy-democracy, where the majority bullies the minorities, like the Republican house bullied the Democratic minority in holding out the payroll tax break for majority of Americans. We need to follow the rule of law and temper the majority with righteousness and honor everyone’s space and right to the pursuit of their happiness.

Greatness of our nations lies in our system, the checks and balances. The representative form of governance has not let us fall into a pit like most other nations. We must keep the separation of church and state and strip the tax breaks from those institutions that break the rules.

Had it not been for bad politics, there would have been one Christianity; one Islam, one Judaism, one Hinduism and one Native Tradition. Now let’s not allow the same bad politics to divide our nation based on religion.

For all the responses from the panelists, please visit Dallas Morning News at
http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2012/03/texas-faith-should-the-ban-on.html
- - - - -
MikeGhouse is committed to building a Cohesive America and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day. He is a professional speaker, thinker and a writer on pluralism, politics, civic affairs, Islam, India, Israel, peace and justice. Mike is a frequent guest on Sean Hannity show on Fox TV, and a commentator on national radio networks, he writes weekly at Dallas Morning News and regularly at Huffington post, The Smirking Chimp and several other periodicals. His daily blog is www.TheGhousediary.com

Sunday, March 18, 2012

A Muslim dream, what is yours?

I have a dream, that one day, we the Muslims will become fully participating and contributing members of the society, and never stand on the side lines and let others take away our due share.
There was a disappointment for me when I attended the statue inauguration of Martin Luther King Jr.,  in Washington DC.  It was further disappointing that of the 40,000 people who came to see the grand opening of the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge, a new Dallas Landmark on Trinity River, I was the only Muslim, there wasn't any. Deep down, like all religious groups, we have our own percentage of bad ones, but 99% of us are good people that the other 99% in other religious group don't know about us resulting in false perceptions about us.  Don't we want to change this? 

Here is one small step toward achieving that goal - to be normal beings in the normal society. We have to facilitate a positive change, and have formed America Together Foundation to encourage participation from all. Our programs are designed to bring Americans together from every race, ethnicity and faith to get to know each other...and learn to live with goodwill.   


Please take a look at the Sharia Symposium note below.  You can also organize the event in your city, it takes a minimum of $10,000 to do it right  and to negate the false perceptions out there about Sharia; a way of living one's normal life. We have to differentiate between culture and religion, the Sharia Muslim Americans follow will not affect any one, just as the Jewish Halaqa does not affect any one. Let's learn to act before we "have" to re-act. This is a serious matter we cannot overlook it, sitting around will not cut it.


Your support can take this organization to new levels, join us and become partners in making America, an all inclusive nation. America is waiting to embrace us all, we need to step up.

Every one of us can take care of the family, keeping up with our faith, earn a living, and be a part of the society. I encourage you to roll up your sleeves and leave a legacy of serving others as others have served us. At the end no one will be buried with their wealth and I have seen folks who refused to give donation to women in desperate situations and have seen them go from the world. I will be sharing an article that is pending publication - Muslim Priorities. Where do we need to focus to have a safe, peaceful and prosperous future for all of us Americans and American Muslims. 

You can support our efforts by sending a check to America Together Foundation, 2665 Villa Creek Dr, suite 206, Dallas, TX 75234- We are a non-profit organization details are at www.AmericaTogetherFoundation.com 

Thank you.

Mike Ghouse
If you will, you can do all of this month after month:

How much of a candidate's religion is fair game?
http://theghousediary.blogspot.com/2012/03/texas-faith-how-much-of-candidates.html
- - - - -

Sharia Symposium: fear, phobias and facts

- - - - -

Cheyenne and Arapaho tribes of Oklahoma

- - - - -

Mike Joins the board Israeli-Palestinian confederation

Dallas' Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge opens on Trinity River

Happy Purim, one of the happiest Jewish Holidays

- - - - -

India Association celebrates fifty years

- - - - -
- - - - -

HAPPY HOLI, the India festival of colors and joy

TEXAS FAITH: Is the world getting better?

CAIR responds positively, it does not discriminate any Muslim


- - - - -

Texas Faith: Are humans to serve the Earth? Or is the Earth to serve humans?

Mike Ghouse talk carried on 970 WFLA Tampa Bay's

- - - - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Ghouse is committed to building a cohesive America and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day. He is a speaker, thinker and a writer on pluralism, politics, civic affairs, Islam, India, Israel, peace and justice. He is a frequent guest on Sean Hannity show on Fox TV, commentator on national radio network, writes weekly at Dallas Morning News and bi monthly at Huffington post, The Smirking Chimpand other periodicals. His daily blog is www.TheGhousediary.com 

A Muslim dream, what is yours?

I have a dream, that one day, we the Muslims will become fully participating and contributing members of the society, and never stand on the side lines and let others take away our due share.


There was a disappointment for me when I attended the statue inauguration of Martin Luther King Jr.,  in Washington DC.  It was further disappointing that of the 40,000 people who came to see the grand opening of the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge, a new Dallas Landmark on Trinity River, I was the only Muslim, there wasn't any. Deep down, like all religious groups, we have our own percentage of bad ones, but 99% of us are good people that the other 99% in other religious group don't know about us resulting in false perceptions about us.  Don't we want to change this? 

Here is one small step toward achieving that goal - to be normal beings in the normal society. We have to facilitate a positive change, and have formed America Together Foundation to encourage participation from all. Our programs are designed to bring Americans together from every race, ethnicity and faith to get to know each other...and learn to live with goodwill.   


Please take a look at the Sharia Symposium note below.  You can also organize the event in your city, it takes a minimum of $10,000 to do it right  and to negate the false perceptions out there about Sharia; a way of living one's normal life. We have to differentiate between culture and religion, the Sharia Muslim Americans follow will not affect any one, just as the Jewish Halaqa does not affect any one. Let's learn to act before we "have" to re-act. This is a serious matter we cannot overlook it, sitting around will not cut it.


Your support can take this organization to new levels, join us and become partners in making America, an all inclusive nation. America is waiting to embrace us all, we need to step up.

Every one of us can take care of the family, keeping up with our faith, earn a living, and be a part of the society. I encourage you to roll up your sleeves and leave a legacy of serving others as others have served us. At the end no one will be buried with their wealth and I have seen folks who refused to give donation to women in desperate situations and have seen them go from the world. I will be sharing an article that is pending publication - Muslim Priorities. Where do we need to focus to have a safe, peaceful and prosperous future for all of us Americans and American Muslims. 

You can support our efforts by sending a check to America Together Foundation, 2665 Villa Creek Dr, suite 206, Dallas, TX 75234- We are a non-profit organization details are at www.AmericaTogetherFoundation.com 

Thank you.

Mike Ghouse
If you will, you can do all of this month after month:

How much of a candidate's religion is fair game?
http://theghousediary.blogspot.com/2012/03/texas-faith-how-much-of-candidates.html
- - - - -

Sharia Symposium: fear, phobias and facts

- - - - -

Cheyenne and Arapaho tribes of Oklahoma

- - - - -

Mike Joins the board Israeli-Palestinian confederation

Dallas' Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge opens on Trinity River

Happy Purim, one of the happiest Jewish Holidays

- - - - -

India Association celebrates fifty years

- - - - -
- - - - -

HAPPY HOLI, the India festival of colors and joy

TEXAS FAITH: Is the world getting better?

CAIR responds positively, it does not discriminate any Muslim


- - - - -

Texas Faith: Are humans to serve the Earth? Or is the Earth to serve humans?

Mike Ghouse talk carried on 970 WFLA Tampa Bay's

- - - - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Ghouse is committed to building a cohesive America and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day. He is a speaker, thinker and a writer on pluralism, politics, civic affairs, Islam, India, Israel, peace and justice. He is a frequent guest on Sean Hannity show on Fox TV, commentator on national radio network, writes weekly at Dallas Morning News and bi monthly at Huffington post, The Smirking Chimpand other periodicals. His daily blog is www.TheGhousediary.com

Saturday, March 10, 2012

Texas Mawlid Celebrations


It was my dream to talk about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and it came through three years ago. Every year, from Jan 30-March, people in Dallas talk about MLK and Gandhi as the peace makers, until I added a new topic in the peace circles and churches "Muhammad the Peacemaker" and it has become a big hit among Non-Muslims particularly. They never thought Prophet Muhammad was a peace maker.



Insha Allah, I will attend the event on the 7th.
10 short stories of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and how they are a model of peace making for the humanity. All these stories have a singular theme; conflict mitigation and goodwill nurturance.


.

Tuesday, March 6, 2012

CAIR responds positively, it does not discriminate any Muslim

I just (9:00 PM, March 6, 2012) spoke with Mr. Ibrahim Hooper; apparently he was upset about something else, and took it out on me. However he came back and said he was sorry and that is fine with me. I understand the daily pressures he goes through at CAIR, but to jump on me, who was defending CAIR was not kosher. He did not even read the first paragraph, which I read to him and is appended below.


As Muslims we need to go beyond the personalities and look at the matter at hand and find solutions. We are fine now.


As a Muslim you would defend any false charges against Islam, and same goes with an organization that has become a representative of Muslims. I have been consistently doing this for nearly a decade. Look up Worldnet site, quite extensive interviews on there; I have stood up for CAIR on Hannity show many a times and done that on my forums particularly at the WorldMuslimCongress@yahoogroups.com


On my part, I have and I will continue to stand up for any one from Atheist to Zoroastrian and every one in between including the native and earth based traditions.


Discussions aside, here is the bottom line:


CAIR does not discriminate against any Muslim, he said, CAIR will even defend the Civil rights of Jews, Hindus and others. I am copying this to CAIR reps and if it is different, we will add their correct version here to reflect their exact position.


All I wanted was one single statement or link to their policy manual that they do not discriminate. It will put an end to the criticism leveled at CAIR every where. All of this was not necessary.


Mr. Hooper insisted that I give his cell phone number (202) 744-7726 and he will deal with anyone who has a problem.


He is indeed the spokesperson, but the ownership of CAIR belongs to the community. CAIR claims it represents Muslims, and the depth of that phrase needs to be understood.


Here is that statement, CAIR fights against bigotry and will reject any suggestion that a Muslim be denied Justice because one is not Muslim enough. Should someone seek help of CAIR, they will not deny it to any one, particularly if someone calls himself or herself a Muslim. They are welcome to clarify it. The suggestions floated here sound like bigotry; i.e. if you are taken into an emergency room of a hospital, you should get the medical care only if you are American enough.


Continued with previous note:  http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2012/03/cair-should-not-deny-help-to-any-muslim.html 

CAIR should not deny help to any Muslim

CAIR fights against bigotry and will reject any suggestion that a Muslim be denied Justice because one is not Muslim enough.  Should someone seek help of CAIR, they will not deny it to any one, particularly if someone calls himself or herself a Muslim. They are welcome to clarify it.  The suggestions floated here sound like bigotry;  i.e. if you are taken into an emergency room of a hospital, you should get the medical care only if you are American enough.   

This information is also posted at www.WorldMuslimCongress.org and the forums World MuslimCongress@yahoogroups.com, Dallas Pakistanis@yahoogroups.com, and  Irving_Muslims@yahoogroups.com,

You are welcome to share this link with your groups and friends - http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2012/03/cair-should-not-deny-help-to-any-muslim.html

Suhaib,

If we don’t speak up and remain silent, no one will be pissed off at us.  Is that the Muslim thing to do? Shouldn't a Muslim stand up for justice for every human, not just Muslims, am I wrong?

As a corollary to your statement, are you implying that the Americans Civil Liberties Union should not fight for the rights of Muslims, because they are not American enough? Is discrimination against Muslims Ok with you? That is what the right wingers are saying, to expose the true nature of Muslims to America, as you are saying about Ahmadiyya Muslims.

Brother, please revisit our value system, the value system of Islam as well as America.

I am afraid a few among us have lost our minds, the good men and women need to speak up. Your statement is very narrow.  “I think the basic question is not whether CAIR should protect the rights of Amamadi group rather the question is if CAIR considers them Muslims or not.”

Some of the statements in this thread are draconian, inhuman and unacceptable to civil societies. When someone seeks help, we have to offer it and not ask what kind of human he or she is.

 Do you want to institute rules in CAIR that before someone seeks help; they need to sign the document to prove that they are Muslims, that they declare Ahmadiyya to be Non-Muslims? Do you want  other help agencies such as women’s shelter, unemployment, social security and others to demand proof from you, that you are 100% American, if not deny you the rights?

Do you know the story of Prophet Sulaiman AS, denying food for the ones he thought were evil…. God took back that power from him. What is the lesson? Are you suggesting that we delete this lesson from Quraan because it does not fit the bigotry some of us have against fellow humans,  aka Ahmadiyya Muslims?


Do we all live in America?
Do we value American ideals of liberty and justice? Which really are Islamic?

Brother you can hate me all you want, and go behind my back and malign me as much as you want, which a handful of my fellow Muslims are doing.  But what you are doing is not the Muslim thing to do.    

May Allah guide us to imbibe the values of Islam, which are identical to the values of America, liberty and justice for all?  If your understanding of Islam is different, please speak up.  


Mike Ghouse
Committed to building a cohesive America where no American has to live in discomfort, apprehension or fear of the other.

# # # #





Suhaib Khalid wrote;

Waalikumussalam wa rahmatullah Br. Syed

I believe everybody will agree that our difference of opinion should not lead us to personal attacks as happened here just in couple of cases, but Alhamdulillah all other emails I read basically say what should be a Muslim's opinion on the issue of declaring Ahmadi group as Muslims. It is good that you as representative of CAIR gave the view which I with due respect personally disagree.

I think the basic question is not whether CAIR should protect the rights of Amamadi group rather the question is if CAIR considers them Muslims or not. The rights of Ahmadi's should be protected in the same way as CAIR protects the rights of Christians, Jews or of any other faith. The FBI, American born Muslims or converts to Islam might have confusion about the faith of Ahmadis but people like me and you (the first generation Muslim immigrants especially from Indo-Pak region) are very clear that Ahmadi place of worship can't be called a mosque though it should be protected like a church or synagogue.

Your comment "CAIR does not and is rarely called to interpret these differences by the general public" is confusing. I think the decision makers at CAIR should consult the imams of US to clarify their doubt about whether Ahmadis are Muslims or not and should not look to the general public about the issues of faith.

CAIR should give an official explanation of its view about Ahmadi's whether CAIR considers them Muslims or not. At the same time I think the issue needs a nation wide campaign form our Imams to educate the Muslims as well as non-Muslims about who Ahmadis are. I have a very good and old friend of mine in UK who is a Ahmadi. I know very well how Ahmadis established themselves in UK. I pray from the bottom of my heart that Allah swt protect CAIR from being the promoters of Ahmadi faith as Muslims in US and save us from the fitna as it spread in UK.... Aameen
Wassalam
Suhaib Khalid



On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 1:11 AM, Syed Ali <saliafz@gmail.com> wrote:

Assalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullah,

This discussion has gone way out of hand. I request everyone to please refrain from personal attacks. This is a policy decision that CAIR is currently discussing.Â

Please understand that CAIR is a civil rights advocacy organization for Muslims in particular, but when we defend the civil rights of Muslims, we indirectly defend the rights of all groups wether they be Muslim or not. We are quite aware, there are groups who say they are Muslim or Islamic, but are considered by many to be outside the realms of Islam. Â

CAIR does not and is rarely called to interpret these differences by the general public, nor does the public care.  Our working with any group should not be interpreted as an endorsement of that groups' philosophy or theology, but rather the inherent benefit to the community at large. In this particular case this is an interfaith event wherein CAIR needs to be present. Recently CAIR National called for an FBI investigation of the vandalism and/or desecration of an Ahmadiyyah Mosque in Virginia that appeared to be a "hate crime".  Our civil rights and advocacy work often extends beyond the "strict classification" as to who is or who is not Muslim, and the community cannot afford for us to discriminate in the context of our work.

We choose to work with groups based upon our mission to "Bridge understanding of Islam and Muslims...." to serve as an advocate and to defend the civil rights of the American Muslim community. Given the differences and  issues we have within our community, it is sometimes tough to navigate our mission. Please be aware, our detractors and/or enemies exploit sectarian and/or religious differences against our community.  We hope and pray that you understand our position.Â

Jaz'ak'Allah Khair






AA
Abdullah,

Again, I am appalled at your dishonesty and inability to tell the truth.

1.      I am not selling any book at this time and I have not advertised any of my products even on my websites and the many forums I manage. Look at you, you are advertising your business with your signature in the forum... I will not be petty like you but it is ironic that you write this. Those who believe you, will always believe, those who seek the truth will not, they will have to find the truth on their own.
2.     . The Neocons tell "kill the infidels, where ever you find them" to malign Islam, without telling the whole truth about it. You have chosen the same path by telling them I write for Front Page - as if I am employed by them, on the top of that, you did not tell what I wrote, do you have the balls to share that link with fellow Muslims? Two Muslims and three Neocons wrote that piece, and every word I wrote is published as is without filtering. I admire their honesty for publishing what was not palatable to them. Look at your selves and your integrity my friend, that is gross dishonesty.
3. I am repeating your words back to you - don't write until you give up the fanaticism and extremism you espouse. Remember, piety goes with humility and not arrogance and dictating others.

May Allah give you the guidance to be a Rahmat to fellow humans.

Mike Ghouse



In a message dated 3/3/2012 9:22:32 A.M. Central Standard Time, abdullahmikail@aol.com writes:
MIke Ghouse,

I am not on a stage like you trying to sell books and publicize. I am not writing for show and tell.
I have watched you and followed you for years and done the very best that I can to lead you back to the straight path, I have asked local scholars and Imams for help with you and they have tried as well to no avail. What you believe and do and follow is well documented by you, yourself, I am nothing more than a mirror to your truth...I am only pointing out what you wrote and what you said and what you did.
You are a contributing writer to FPM Magazine, a Zionist hate blog that is a vehement enemy to all Muslims and Islam, period all they do 24 - 7 is demonize and belittle and denigrate and attack Islam, and you are one of their writers. Do any of the groups you copied herein know that? That is tantamnount to an imagined Jewish person contributing to a Nazi blog that lauds the holocaust... and that imaginary Jewish person loves it. Why don''t you talk to your friends about your being so cozy with FPM Magazine? Why do you think FPM likes you so much? What you wrote for them was well filtered and not objectionable... but you are the exact type of "muslim" they want to support because they know you are in harmony with them behind the scenes.

I am stating nothing more than my honest opinion based upon the documetned evidence of your own pen and your own words...don't shoot the messenger, focus on the message...read your own writings and reflect on it...return everything you have ever written to the Quran and the Sunnah.
Does it stand up to that test, does it agree with the Quiran and the Sunnah?
When it is returned to the Quran and Sunnah to see if it is Islam most of what you have written, stood for, publicly proclaimed burns up into smoke...it does not stand that test that you are preaching or something else.
The evidence of your own words and actions proves that it is something else.
Please do not communicate with me until you return to Islam and abandon this ravenouse hunger you have for publicity and duniah.

Abdullah Mikail
Michael L. MacKay dba MacKay Construction & Consulting (c) 2003
Agent/Producer, Envoy Films (Just Say Go LLC)

http://www.americanramadan.com/

The latest film in post production from Envoy Films:

http://www.teawiththetaliban.com/






To: abdullahmikail@aol.com; Irving_Muslims@yahoogroups.com; worldmuslimcongress@yahoogroups.com; dallaspakistanis@yahoogroups.com
CC: amina_rab@hotmail.com; khalidazam@yahoo.com
From: MIKEGHOUSE@aol.com
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 10:02:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [Irving_Muslims] Re: CAIR TX doing event on "Ahmadiyya Muslim Community"?

 

AA

Abdullah,

All I can do is pray for you.
May God save you and bless us all with peace, so
when we talk, act and think, it is peace, it is Islam.

Your language sounds like you own Islam, and you had it enough with those who do not you. My friend, Islam, Allah and Prophet are not your property  to lay exclusive claims on. And, where are your manners, don't you say Salaam with Salaam? Let your Muslimness reflect in your language.

I am a Muslim for me and Allah, and not to please or pander to you or any one. Allah is my judge, and to him alone I bow and I hope you do too. I really don't care what you think of me, it is not you I am submit to , it is Allah I submit to and you not even a guardian of Allah. You are a banda just like me.  You are free to be who you are and I am free to be who I am. If you have free time, you can explore all you want about me and see the blogs listed atwww.mikeghouse.net nothing is secret about me. I am a proud Muslim with balls and no one but Allah frightens me.

My Muslimness is not defined by you, or any right winger Christian, Jew,Hindu or a Muslim. If Islam is your private club, you can bar entry, but fortunately it is God's deen with no policeman. Islam is about individual accountability to oneself and to God's universe.
Â
May God guide you to reflect the Muslim in you,
May Prophet bless us all, so we can be a mercy to mankind like him,
and that is the kind of Muslim IÂ aspire to be and I pray the same for you.

Jazak Allah Khair

Mike Ghouse




In a message dated 3/3/2012 8:33:35 A.M. Central Standard Time, abdullahmikail@aol.com writes:
Mike Ghouse,
Â
I have been politically correct and polite with you as much as humanly possible, but this is the absolute end of the road for you and I.
Â
You of all people have nothing to say in this regard about "Muslim" or "Non Muslim" you are the wolf in sheep's clothing lowing in the darkness just outside of the fire light seeking to mislead people, seeking to hide the path, seeking to confuse...you want to undermine true faith, you are hypocrite holding hands with Iblis and smiling.
Â
You pretend to be a Muslim by word only, but our deeds are evil.
Â
You have fabricated your own religion documented in your own web page with your own commandments, you seek at every turn in the road to cause confusion among Musilims and non Muslims alike a...for bout what Islam is...and for what, all for some personal gain?
Â
I have read some of the advice you have given on your web page to innocent people who were seeking Islam or to new converts who needed guidence and you turned their faces directly towards hell and told them "Run!" God knows what I wish to do to you for that.
Â
Return to Islam, look at the bedrock of Islam, the basic Sharia for belief, it is not difficult to understand...it is a very basic foundation...stop digging like a rat beneath it and trying to bring it down.
Â
Return to Islam and Be a Muslim....don't claim something that you are not, be that something, be a Muslim.
Â
Or stop telling people you are, and just say who you really are...because you are not fooling the believers, you are only fooling yourself and the ignorant.
Â

Abdullah Mikail
Michael L. MacKay dba MacKay Construction & Consulting (c) 2003
Agent/Producer, Envoy Films (Just Say Go LLC)

http://www.americanramadan.com/

The latest film in post production from Envoy Films:

http://www.teawiththetaliban.com/




-----Original Message-----
From: Mike <mikeghouse@aol.com>
To: Irving_Muslims <Irving_Muslims@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Amina Rab <amina_rab@hotmail.com>; Irving Muslims Irving Muslims <irving_muslims@yahoogroups.com>; abdullahmikail <abdullahmikail@aol.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 3, 2012 7:32 am
Subject: Re: [Irving_Muslims] Re: CAIR TX doing event on "Ahmadiyya Muslim Community"?
AAÂ

Khalid

Amina is right, you cannot go around and verify if the one you are defending has muslim credentials, if FBI claims or one claims to be a muslim and says the shadah, defend him or her. How many Muslims does cair asks to prove to be a muslim?

The Ahmadiyya muslim story is a long battle, recently we carried an extensive discussion on the issue. Just as the rightwing Christians misquote us saying that worship moon god among other things, we the Muslims have similar failings when it comes to Ahmadiyya Muslims.

Their quraan, kalima, namaaz, roza is no different than us, there are a few contentious differences, the main one is their belief  that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is the promised messiah. The ill-treatment, persecution and harassment of them honestly makes us less of a muslim, that is not the muslim thing to do. We should not push God from his chair and become judges to call them wajib Qatal -god only is the judge and no one has a right to do shirk by becoming God and pre-empt him in passing judgements.

Most of this exchange is at worldmuslimcongress.orgÂ

We have now working on a proposal,Â

A Draft proposal to Ahmadiyya Muslims on March 2, 2012
THIS IS A DRAFT PROPOSAL
Irfan and I will develop and fine tune this after a few responses.

As a Muslim it concerns me that some among us are violating the very thing Islam stands for; to be just. Given the amount of discussions we have had on the topic, (much of which is preserved at:www.WorldMuslimCongress.org) and the contributions many have made towards the understanding, Irfan and I will make an effort to put a proposal together.

I invite positive contributions on the topic from our esteemed forum members, in 75 words or less to make this a fruitful proposal. These two forums will set the limits on this particular thread, but those who want to write more, are welcome to the unrestricted group;PaksitaniAmericans@yahoogroups.com. On these two forums, World Muslim Congress and Dallas Pakistanis, I will not post anything that is not constructive and beyond 75 words. As an example, this paragraph is 75 words.

Given below are two draft notes from me and Irfan:

A proposal for the Ahmadiyya Muslims to consider, which will lessen the hostility of a few among Sunnis and Shias towards them, and it is necessary for us to preserve the value of Islam as a religion of peace and justice.

The three easiest issues are:

THE WORD KAFIR:

Even though technically there is nothing wrong with it, as it simply means denier of my version of the truth. However it has become a derogatory word over the years. One of the Khalifas had said that anyone who does not accept Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed as the promised Messiah is a Kafir, a denier.
alt="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5LMDXD2MnCk/T1GDu3SHBXI/AAAAAAAAP3w/lOxm2Pp7T_o/s1600/Shahadah.jpg" title="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5LMDXD2MnCk/T1GDu3SHBXI/AAAAAAAAP3w/lOxm2Pp7T_o/s1600/Shahadah.jpg" v:shapes="_x0000_i1026">We ask the current Khalifa Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad to make a public declaration that anyone who claims himself to be a Muslim and recites the Shahada (that is a Muslim pledge declaring that Allah is the God and Muhammad is his prophet) is a Muslim. No ifs and buts. This will make it easy for a few among us to get off the high horse and respect the Khalifas words, I will be one of them and most moderate Muslims want to hear that as well.


THE PRAYERS/NAMAZ

I have done my personal share, by going to the Ahmadiyya Masajid, pray behind the Imam leading the prayers, break the Ramadan fasts with fellow Muslim. Murabbi Saheb is a kind man, his presence and his demeanor is awe inspiring, a model Imam to respect with heart and I do that with all my heart. On the other hand a few of my Ahmadiyya friends did not reciprocate the same and were given reasons that how could they pray behind an Imam who does not believe in them. Of course, this is not a game of keeping scores; but emulating the ultimate peace maker, the Rahmatul Aalameen, the good will nurturer Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). I will continue to do my share of goodwill regardless of the results.

It will give a lot of comfort to non-Ahmadi Muslims, to see Ahmadi Muslims to swing by the nearest Mosque when the time for prayers hit, and go pray behind the Imam leading the prayers, be who it is; Shia, Sunni, Bohra, Warith Deen Muhammad or any group of Muslims where public worship is allowed.

Restrictions not to pray behind a Sunni or Shia imam must be lifted. It is not the Imam's niyyat, it is the niyyat (intent) of the banda (worshipper) to worship Allah that matters, and Masjid and imam are merely vehicles.

THOSE MUSLIMS

It is not kosher to say, that we are the peaceful Muslims and others are not; I was the other Muslim when I heard that, and I held back and talked and wrote about it, as that is the civil thing to do.

I urge the same to all Muslims not to present ourselves as angels and others as devils. It has come to haunt us in Dallas. One of the Chest thumping Muslims was excited to talk with an informant and lied about a Mosque and labeled it as funded by Saudi (as if it is evil). The idiot did not realize the mess he had created.

To most Christians, Jews and Hindus, we are all Muslims, they really don’t know the difference between an Ahmadi, Shia, Sunni… or other, just as most of us don’t know the difference between a Presbyterian, Baptist or a Methodist. If we tell them that we are the good guys, peace loving Muslims and the other Muslims are not; they simply laugh at it, and see that we are attempting to save our tail. They really don’t believe us.

They rather, see us be brutally honest. I was giving a Dinner talk to an all white Christian and Jewish group when I addressed the radicals as â€Å“some among usâ€
 don’t see what the majority sees… they really liked it. I did not stand there and tell that we are all clean good people and deny that we don’t have the bad ones among us, yes among us. They related the bad among them.

Please do share the harassment and persecution Ahmadiyya Muslims are facing in Pakistan and other Muslim majority nations. The harassment comes from the bad guys from â€Å“among us.” There is a lot of work we need to do.

I urge Hazrat Mirza Masroor to guide the Ahmadiyya Muslims to speak all the good things they are doing, and I know and appreciate that. It is a collective good that all Muslims benefit from the good things Ahmadi Muslims do.

The Sunnis do not have a leader, but they want the good for all, clarify these things for us, and for those who are no sure about Ahmadiyya, but deep down want goodness.

Mike Ghouse
Note to Irfan – they did send me the info about Kafir and Namaz, but it needs to be on their site, and part of their milieu and public declaration.


HERE IS IRFAN̢۪S PROPOSAL

Your proposal is very well-intentioned and addresses a very pressing need of the Muslims (especially Pakistani Muslims) to reconcile their beliefs with those of the Ahmadi Muslims. I have no doubt in my mind that Ahmadis are not only Muslims, but good Muslims. They have considerable positive contribution in the progress and development of Pakistan. They are well-educated, well-behaved and civilized, extremely well-disciplined in their professional and religious life. It is very unfortunate that they are being treated so unfairly, rather cruelly because of their interpretation of the phrase khaatam-an-Nabiyyeenâ. Personally, I do not agree with their interpretation but I would not have bad feelings about them, let alone curse them openly or, worse, be an abettor in legislating a piece of constitutional amendment against their faith.

That said, I believe that a big part of the hatred that have plagued Pakistani social milieu in general, and Ahmadi Muslims in particular, is because of the thinking of their top leadership (beginning from Mirza Bashiruddin Mehmud) that anyone who does not believe in the Promised Messiahship/prophethood of Mirza G. A, is akaafir. If you recall, I posted my concern several times recently on your forum but no Ahmadi Muslim addressed my concern (it is also alleged that Sir Zafarullah Khanâۉ€the first foreign minister of Pakistan--an extremely bright mindâۉ€did not attend the M. A. Jinnahâۉ„¢s funeral because he did not consider (allegedly) him a Muslim). Now, if this attitude coming from the top and trickling downstream continues, I don’t think our combined efforts will bear much fruit.
You and I can very effectively make a case for anyone who believes in oneness of God, prays, gives poor-due, fasts, goes to Hajj once in a lifetime being a Muslim. But I am not sure if we can bring Mirza Tahir Ahmad sahib to the table and request him to change their (hidden) thinking (I say â€Ëœhiddenâۉ„¢ because, I think, they do not like to declare their inner policy for non-Ahmadis openly). If you still think it’s worth trying, I am with you 100%.
I do believe that if the Ahmadi Muslims can be convinced to change their inner thinking of considering non-Ahmadis as non-Muslims, everything else (praying behind a non-Ahmadi imam, visiting non-Ahmadi mosques, avoiding proselytization) can easily fit in the groove and the world will have a much reduced level of hostility towards them. If they can do that, that will do them and their future a lot of good. They can invite people to their conferences, invited lectures but I think they should avoid proselytization and debates as much as possible.

Who knows, so much good may come out of the change in the core pattern of Ahmadi leadership thinking that folks like you and I can, one day, make a strong case in Pak SC (hopefully I. A. Choudhry will stay as CJ) to have the 1974 second amendment repealed!

Irfan

Mike Ghouse
Committed to a cohesive America




On Mar 2, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Khalid Azam <khalidazam@yahoo.com> wrote:


ASAK Amina

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my concern.

Your citation of Equal Employment Opportunity does not make any sense whatsoever. As an equal opportunity employer, how many non-Muslims have the various offices of CAIR employed as full time staff so far? The answer in all probablity is Zero. Besides, the issue of CAIR endorsing Ahmadiyyas, [who in turn consider mainstream Muslims who do not believe in Ghulam Ahmed of Quadiyan a prophet as kafirs], has nothing to do with equal opportunity employment. There is no employment involved here. It is a question of what ideology CAIR is endorsing? Just as CAIR opposes ideologies like Zionism without any concern for equal opportunity employment, so is the case with the Ahmadiyya movement. CAIR has positioned itself as the leading voice of Islam and Muslims in America. If CAIR is promoting and endorsing as bona-fide Muslims, a community whose belief is in conflict with the fundamental tenets and the first pillar of Islam, then I am afraid it risks the chance of being discredited as the voice of Islam and Muslims in America and it is in everyone's interest that such a thing not happen.

As you may be aware, the Shahada of Muslims is "There is no god except Allah, and Muhammad(PUBH) is his last and final Messenger". It is universally acknowledged in the Muslim world that any person who does not believe in this tenet cannot be considered a Muslim. The Ahmadiyyas not only do not believe that Muhammad(P) is the last and final Messenger of God, but they also insists that anyone who does is a Kaafir (i.e. by insisting that any person who does not believe that Ghulam Ahmad as a Prophet is a Kaafir).

You may want to run this through the CAIR Shura Council and develop a sound and consistent position that all chapters across CAIR can adopt.

Thanks again for taking into consideration my query. I would be happy to see CAIR change its position in this regard and develop a policy that is consistent with the fundamental requirements/tenets of Islam.

Wasalaam
Khalid



From: Amina Rab <amina_rab@hotmail.com>
To: Irving Muslims Irving Muslims <irving_muslims@yahoogroups.com>; abdullahmikail@aol.com; Khalid Azam <khalidazam@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Irving_Muslims] Re: CAIR TX doing event on "Ahmadiyya Muslim Community"?

ASAK,

Please see the statement below that is also reflected on the CAIR National website.

"In complying with the letter and spirit of applicable laws and pursuing its own goal of diversity, CAIR is committed to a policy of Equal Employment Opportunity and prohibits discrimination in all its programs and activities on any legally recognized basis including, but not limited to race, age color, religion, sex, marital status, national origin, citizenship, ancestry, physical or mental disability, veteran status, or any other legally protected basis.
CAIR does not discriminate - Period It is a Civil Rights organization and we need to practice what we preach - that of equal treatment for ALL.

JAK,
Amina Rab
"Live a life of action, NOT reaction"

Surah Isra 17 verse 80 Say: "O my Lord! let my entry be by the Gate of Truth and Honor and likewise my exit by the Gate of Truth and Honor; and grant me from Thy Presence an authority to aid (me)."
Ameen,Thumameen.
Transliteration :Wa qur rabbi adkhilni mudkhala sidqinw wa akhrijni mukhraja sidqinw wa-j'al li mil ladunka sulta_nan nasira.



To: Irving_Muslims@yahoogroups.com
From: abdullahmikail@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:22:33 +0000
Subject: [Irving_Muslims] Re: CAIR TX doing event on "Ahmadiyya Muslim Community"?
Wa alaikum as salaam wa rahmat allahu wa barakatu,

Dear Brs. and Srs.,

This is a very important issue to address publicly. The greatest problem we have is in teaching the public about Islam, what is and what isn't is very important. The people see groups like this and others that are not Islam yet claim to be and then they become confused and wonder why we Muslims don't behave in and or ascribe to the "beliefs" of groups like this.

It is vitally important that we not let people in this country get confused about what Islam is.

Ahmadiyyas is not Islam.

I am politically correct as often as I can be, but this is a subject that cannot be covered over by concerns for how Ahmadiyya people feel...their feelings are not as important as the truth.

They should clearly call themselves "Ahmadiyyas" and not Muslims...there is a vast difference between what they believe and what the truth is of Islam.

We have a saying in this country, "If you talk the talk, walk the walk." and "The word and the deed go hand in hand."

In other words, if you say you are something be that something, and their foundation is not built upon Islam but an absolute rejection of it.

CAIR being a civil rights organization has every responsibility and duty to see that the Ahmadiyyas receive as much attention as any other demographic in this country...but they must not endorse them as "Muslim" because they are not.

If CAIR is going to validate this group with that title, then I have serious issuies with that line of thinking...they must or should qualify their published statements about this.

Please, every concerned member of the Muslim community contact your CAIR representative today and let them know that they must issue a press release clarifying this issue.

It is a duty, and Amana, that we Muslims are tasked with in telling the truth, and CAIR is composed of Muslims that must be held to an even higher standard of accuracy...please contact them to ask for a clarification on this issue in public so that people do not become confused.

I am not the most well behaved among us, I am overly aggressive in addressing issues, I wander frequently into error, but God forgive me, I have never condoned this level of error in public comments.

I will be contacting CAIR representatives today to address this issue, Insha Allah.

Abdullah Mikail
Michael L. MacKay dba MacKay Construction & Consulting (c) 2003
Agent/Producer, Envoy Films (Just Say Go LLC)

http://www.americanramadan.com/

The latest film in post production from Envoy Films:

http://www.teawiththetaliban.com/




--- In Irving_Muslims@yahoogroups.com, Khalid Azam wrote:
>
> ASAK
>
> FYI - While the subject of who is a Muslim and who is not is complex, it is a clear part of the universal Islamic Aqeeda that belief in Muhammad(PUBH) as the Last Prophet is required for anyone to be called a Muslim. As per the Wikipedia description, the "Ahmadiyya Muslim Community" [different from the Lahori Ahmadiyyas] believes that Ghulam Ahmad of Quadiyan was a prophet of God who received revelation from God, and those Muslims who do not believe in this are in fact Kaafir.
>
> SEE:Â http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya
>
> In this respect, an organization like CAIR endorsing this group as Muslim is fraught with complications and fitnah. Note that working with members of other faiths (such as Christians, Jews, Buddhists etc) who may not believe in Islamic Aqeeda is different from recognizing and taking up the cause of a group that does not believe in Islamic Aqeeda but insists on being called Muslim. It effectively forms an implicit endorsement of the acceptance of their Aqeeda.
>
> Wasalaam
> Khalid



>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: CAIR-Houston
> To: khalidazam@...
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 2:53 PM
> Subject: Amy Goodman Coming to Houston & Other Community Events
>
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> Â
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