The Personal Sharia helps one follow his relationship with God like prayers, festivals, fasting, zakat, hajj and other rituals, which most Muslims follow. Where as the Public Sharia deals with more than one person and is subject to human fallacy and cannot be universally applicable. It needs Ijtihad and it is hard to come by, the Neocon (extremist) Muslims will hang you.
The recitation of Bismillah is not for God, it is for us to understand its value and make it a part of our life, an average Muslim perhaps says it over 50 times day, it is such a beautiful prayer we are blessed with. The Sharia laws of Taliban, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, some laws of Pakistan and Malaysia are not based on equity and Mercy. I am positive, very few Muslims want to live under those laws, not me and not a majority of Muslims. Hence for us, the American Muslims and American Muslim women our civil laws serve justice and we have no need for the Public Shariah laws.This group exchanges are about the topic and not me or you, please avoid comments on any one's persona, usually a reason not to post the comment.riginal postings and
- http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2009/06/no-shariah-in-america.html
- http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2009/05/5000-reward.html
- http://blog.dawn.com:91/dblog/2009/06/04/the-frozen-solution/comment-page-2/#comment-14086.
Dear Hussain, Thank you for sharing your opinions about Sharia.
The issue is about serving Justice to humankind; the American Justice system is one of the most humane systems in the market today, not the best, but the most humane and serves the human aspirations well – freedom and justice.
The personal Sharia deals with how you connect with the divine and the things you need to do to be at peace with yourselves. In fact all of the guidance in ‘how to’ (the ritual part) comes from the Personal Sharia and the way I perform my prayers, fasting etc are guided by it.
The public Sharia, the rules that affect the conduct between individuals, and regulation of the same was designed by men with good intentions and perhaps may work in exclusive societies where Muslims reside. The safeguards from carrying on mis-justice are not fail proof in the system when it comes to dealing with divorce and apostasy for instance. There is no consensus on the issues. Many a Muslims have not extricated themselves from years of conditioning that Sharia is divine, it is not, and it is made by humans for humans.
What they practice in Afghanistan, Sudan, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia and Iran are gross injustices to the individual, it is the law of the Mullah rather than justice, and that kind of extremism is encroaching in Malaysia, Bangladesh and Pakistan now; it is not justice anymore.
Compare that to the Justice system in America, again made by men for men to serve justice. The mistakes are made in this system as well, but the ordinary people are usually served with Justice. Gross injustice is rare. The system has the ability to correct itself to serve justice, and there is a process of consensus building as well, and not bulldozing a fatwa on a poor soul. The tyrants have killed the element of Ijtihaad and consensus building in the Public Sharia and certainly a majority of American Muslim women and men do not feel the need for it, they have done without it.
The intent of Sharia law was good and was based on Justice; the essence of Islam. However, it has lost all its traction of good governance, self correction and Ijtihaad to the authoritarianism which shamelessly proclaims their nations to be Islamic in Character. Elimination of crime in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere is a myth, they just do not report the rapes and injustices, instead the victim is punished. With Free press and democracy, the government would be responsible to the public in serving as justly as it can.
Qur’aan starts with the guidance about learning, and the prophet says, if we have to learn we can even go to China, thank God we have gone on and are living in such democracies where learning is continual. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)’s society accommodated every faith, in fact, he took the initiative to legitimize co-existence, but that society disappeared within 100 years of his death and mono-religious society emerged. However, that society has taken refuge in democracies and I welcome our civic laws, despite its flaws.
Mike Ghouse is a Speaker, Thinker and a Writer. He is a frequent guest on talk radio and local television network discussing Islam, Pluralism, Terrorism, India, Peace, political and civic issues. His comments, news analysis and columns can be found on the Websites and Blogs listed on his personal website http://www.mikeghouse.net/.
# # #
SHARIA IS NEVER AN IMPEDIMENT TO PROGRESS IN ANY AGE
From Hussain Khan, Tokyo
Mike,
American system of justice is producing a rotten way of life, full of crimes, drugs, homicides, financial and political scandals, rapes, divorces, disintegration of family life and what not
How a pious Muslim can recommend such a rotten collective life to American Muslims?
“ If we study Quran, Sunnah and principles of Ijtehad, Shariah can render a better system of justice than what is now prevailing in America. Despite being orthodox, Saudi system of justice has almost eliminated crime in Saudi Arabia. Taliban also eliminated crime and drugs from Afghanistan during a brief period of their rule. Can you claim that American system of justice, with which you are satisfied and happy, can eliminate crime, drugs, rapes, divorces and several other evils in their social, economic, financial and political lives? Do you think the new financial regulations being introduced by Obama can cure all the financial ills of interest and leveraged-based, speculative American Capitalism? Will the debt-ridden American society be saved by such cosmetic measures of Federal Reserve Board, as printing dollars and rescuing banks and the bankrupted companies like General Motors and Chrysler, which were once pride of America, through those printed dollars in addition to trillions of Federal debt sold in bonds to China, Japan and other Asian countries? Can American system of justice produce that level of Morality, which Islam can? Are there no scandals in Wall Street and in entire financial and political life in America? You are recommending such a rotten system to Muslims! How it can be superior to a collective life that Sharia would produce? We should rather make Dawah to non-Muslims for divine Shariah to save them from their present wretched, hell-like life, full of stress and with lack of peace of mind and heart. Allah has sent guidance to us not only for the private life. It is our duty and mission as a Muslim to let them appreciate that they are now suffering in their collective lives due to not accepting the divine guidance in their financial, economic, political, social, family and all other walks of life.â€
By Hussain Khan, Tokyo
Sharia is never an impediment to progress. It is very strange that a pious Muslim like you can think of abandoning Shariah to achieve progress. The truth is rather the reverse of it. Muslims can progress through Sharia. I again recommend you to read Feldstein, a Harvard Law Professor, book on Shariah. He maintains that Muslims became and remained rulers of the world for 12 centuries as long as they maintained Sharia as their Supreme Law. They became wretched and slaves of the West due to abandoning Shariah in private and public life.
Through Itjehad you can accommodate modernization. All your quote is 100% right. Modernization is of course not Westernization. All your quote does not imply that Sharia should be abandoned for achieving the objectives of progress as desired by you and by all Muslims. Better you also go through Allama Iqbal book “Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam†,based on his six lectures in Madras in English. Due to the door of Ijtehad being open until the Last day of Qiyama, Sharia can accommodate all latest changes in science, technology and in all kinds and in all branches of knowledge. Rather Muslims had been the pioneers of all sciences during the peak days of their rule and suzerainty over the world for centuries. It is a very outdated idea that Shariah is an impediment to progress. This reflects paucity of knowledge and utter ignorance about Shariah. Better to study what is Sharia before proclaiming that American Muslims do not need it. It is a great misunderstanding that Sharia can ever be an impediment to progress. I recommend to read above referred-to book of Allama Iqbal to clarify the concept of Sharia. Allama Iqbal was neither a Mullah nor a partner of any FATWA factory, which you are always condemning. He was a great scholar and had a PHD degree in Philosophy from Germany. He has given his reasons that Shariah can never be a hindrance to progress in any age.
Even the development of Islamic civilization since 7th to 18th century or up to the Industrial Revolution of England indicates that Muslims remained pioneers of all sciences and knowledge, under the inspiration of Quranic verses to seek signs of God in all branches of knowledge and sciences, as long as they were pious Muslims and accepted Quran and Hadith in all walks of life, not simply in private life, as you suggest. Today we are not good Muslims and that is the cause of our lack of progress. If we could become pious Muslim like you not only in private life but even in our political, social, economic, financial and all sectors of collective life, we can again reach to the same pinnacle of humanity and scientific progress which had made the Bedouins of Arabia not only the rulers of the world in political field but also made them the Masters and pioneers of knowledge in all its branches and sciences. Our progress lies not in abandoning Shariah, rather in understanding it and in its implementation in all sectors of life, be it private, collective or public life
Your problem is different. As I have written elsewhere, I quote it here again with some improvement: “This is an age of democracy. You have to solve problems in a democratic way. In the long run, you will have to negotiate with the Taliban You like it or not, there are people in Swat valley who want Sharia, a system of justice based on divine Law. They are familiar to this system for the last 110 years before their forced annexation into Pakistan by a military dictator, Gen. Yahya Khan. He cancelled all Sharia immediately after the takeover of Swat to Pakistan.
They do not want a system of justice based on American Law, as pleaded by Mike Ghous, a pious Muslim, for American Muslims. Such pious Muslims are described in Quran as, AFATUMENOONA BEBADHIL KITABE WO TAKFURUNA BEBADH. “Do you believe in a certain part of the holy Book and refute the other partâ€. Such pious Muslims are ready to follow Islam in their private lives but want to follow American system of justice instead of the one based on Quran and Sunnah for their public or collective life.â€
If we study Quran, Sunnah and principles of Ijtehad, Shariah can render a better system of justice than what is now prevailing in America. Despite being orthodox, Saudi system of justice has almost eliminated crime in Saudi Arabia. Taliban also eliminated crime and drugs from Afghanistan during a brief period of their rule. Can you claim that American system of justice, with which you are satisfied and happy, can eliminate crime, drugs, rapes, divorces and several other evils in their social, economic, financial and political lives? Do you think the new financial regulations being introduced by Obama can cure all the financial ills of interest and leveraged-based, speculative American Capitalism? Will the debt-ridden American society will be saved by such cosmetic measures Federal Reserve Board, as by printing dollars and rescuing banks and the bankrupted companies like General Motors and Chrysler, which were once pride of America, through those printed dollars in addition to trillions of Federal debt sold in bonds to China, Japan and other Asian countries? Can American system of justice produce that level of Morality, which Islam can? Are there no scandals in Wall Street and in entire financial and political life in America? You are recommending such a rotten system to Muslims! How it can be superior to a collective life that Sharia would produce? We should rather make Dawah to non-Muslims for divine Shariah to save them from their present wretched, hell-like life, full of stress and with lack of peace of mind and heart. Allah has sent guidance to us not only for the private life. It is our duty and mission as a Muslim to let them appreciate that they are now suffering in their collective lives due to not accepting the divine guidance in their financial, economic, political, social, family and all other walks of life.
Best regards,
Hussain Khan, Tokyo
Visit JAPAN MUSLIM THINK TANK (still under construction) website
Click http://www.muslimthinktank.info
From: hasniessa@yahoo.com [mailto:hasniessa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:33 AM
Subject: Fw: American imposed war in Pakistan condemned by a Toronto magazine
It's amazing how hypocritical some muslims can be, and still talk about sharia which if applied in its entirety, these people don't realize, could be impediment to progress.
Let me quote, which I read elsewhere..................
- modernization does not necessarily mean westernization.Non-Western societies
can modernize and have modernized without abandoning their own cultures and
adopting wholesale Western values,insttitutions, and practices.Modernization,
instead, strengthen those cultures and reduces the relative power of the West.
In fundamental ways, the world is becoming more modern and less Western.
Islam and modernization do not clash.Pious Muslims can cultivate the sciences,
work efficiently in factories, or utilize advanced weapons.Modernization requires
no one political ideology or set of institutions.As a creed, Islam satisfies management
consultants as well as peasants.The Shari'a has nothing to say about the changes
that accompany modernization, such as the shift from agriculture to industry, from
countryside to the city, or from social stabilty to social flux, nor does it impinge on
such matters as mass education, rapid communications, new forms of transportation,
or health care.
Zina, muslims like
--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Zina Khan
From: Zina Khan
Subject: American imposed war in Pakistan condemned by a Toronto magazine
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 3:45 PM
You must define categorically for us what is Islamic, in the trues sense of the word? why are you guys chasing Pakistan only?
In Saudi Arabia if you are found wandering the streets during the time of Salaa and have a green colored Aqama, then you are liable to get caned and forced into one of those building they "mis" call Masjid in the Kingdom.
This is what is perceived as the true "Islamic" state by some of you folks !
Islam has looked at humanity with the eye of justice and logic and has enacted rational laws for it....not your man made trash that you are trying to propagate ..
Islam does not deprive anyone of his share nor given him more than his due. Every effort carries a reward and it is necessary for the society to honour this reward....is that what you see happening in and around you?
A good society does not allow that a hard worker should starve, and an idle person should benefit from the proceeds of the formers’ work. ....you can't even provide basics to the ordinary hardworking people and yet the rich vaderas with their gun totting goons have all the amenities in life...why? are these people also not muslims like you folks? are they also not human?
Muslims of the twenty-first century should beware of the renewed onslaught on their beliefs being conducted today from within our Communities all in the name of Qur'an and Sunna,but actually supported by certain regimes pursuing specific ideologies, they are taking over the mosques built by Ahl al-Sunna in Europe and North America - mostly Indian and Pakistani immigrants -- by means of elections and fundings -the reality of such beliefs is different from those of the main body of Muslims!
Muslims are into narcotics? are they not? Taleban grow and sell drugs to buy bombs to blow up people and kill and subjugate them...so which sharia is this?
A Saudi prince who shares whisky in the evening, sentences a man to prison in the morning for drinking !
All kinds of liquor is available freely in Middle East countries including Iran - it trickles into their mouths in China Cups as it is served in "Tea Pots" - I haven't found an islamic country as yet which does not sell alchohol and where some "good" muslims like you folks are transgressing the prohibitions against wine and spirits ! If the rich drink imported ones , the poor make their own ! so? which sharia is this?...do you want me to go on ?
--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Hussain Khan, Tokyo
From: Hussain Khan, Tokyo
Subject: American imposed war in Pakistan condemned by a Toronto magazine
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 8:19 PM
This article pleads that America has imposed a war on Pakistan to weaken it. countrymen are killing each other. Government objective is to please America. War could have been avoided by accepting Sharia rule in Swat. Instead of trying to avoid war, Zardari preferred to kill those who want Sharia in the same way as Musharraf killed Lal mosque students due to their demand enforcing Shariah in Pakistan. And yet Pakistan is called an Islamic state as its name is, 'Islamic' Republic of Pakistan. Where is it 'Islamic'? Those who demand Sharia have been cornered to become 'terrorists' and deserve killing by Pak army. This article is also available by clicking below:
Mohtram Hussain khan Saheb, ASA
ReplyDeleteYour "burst-up" against the modern vices is correct but quite sentimental as my beloved Javed Bhai becomes some time. First produce a model of Islamic way of life somewhere on this earth, the world will automatically RUSH to it as it is hungry for the solution of its ever-growing problems. Till that time persons like President Obama have no alternative but to carry out doing their temporarily "patch-work-job" as it was clear from his yesterday's speech in the White House.
I am sorry to say: You are wasting your time and energy in aimless wandering in the wilderness of the secular societies of Europe, America and Japan where people have developed their own egos and are "intoxicated" in its lust. All are perhaps "sick".
Yours and ours emphasis should and must ALWAYS be towards building a consciousness in the intelligentsia/masses that you are not the master but only custodian and a Trustee of what you possess and see around you. You all are accountable to Him Who has created it for you and told you "finally" through His Divine Guidance: how to act, live and behave on this earth. That is all. When the man will accept it as the dominant factor of his life, he will undertake the task of producing the "Shariah" of his time on the basis of the aforesaid paramount fundamentals of human existence on this earth. If you, me and others can do so much, we will face our Creator and Sustainer with flying colors, Insha Allah.
Can we get together on this ONE POINT agenda and work concentratively for the rest of our life? I will wait for affirmative response from all my brothers and sisters.
Shamim Siddiqi
Shamim Bhai,
ReplyDeleteYou said it very well
"First produce a model of Islamic way of life somewhere on this earth, the world will automatically RUSH to it as it is hungry for the solution of its ever-growing problems."
Sharia is a hotly spoken agenda among the retarded few. They apply sharia to cut the hands of small thieves but the bigger crooks and scoundrels go free. So we have mr. 10 % as the head of the Islamic republic of Pakistan. Another scoundrel Mubarak as head never opens Rafah crossings between Gaza and Egypt to keep enemies of Islam happy. It does not matter to him that Gazans are dying of food, medicine and clean drinking water due to blocade.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Mike. That was very, very informative.
ReplyDeleteBlessings, Marylou
That is 100% right, but until that ideal time arrives or not in a century or two, shall we continue to preach American Muslims that you do not need divine Shariah, remain satisfied and happy with American system of Justice, as Mike Is a preacher of this kind of ideology?
ReplyDeleteBest regards,
Hussain Khan, Tokyo
Dear Hussain;
ReplyDeleteThe American Justice system is adequate for every American Citizen including Muslims; we don't need another system for Muslims.
The majority of Muslim men and women in a private ballot would not want Sharia laws to chase them here. We don't believe in stoning people to death, we don't want divorces on whims, we don't want any one's hands be cut off for theft, and we don't want people to hang for changing faiths. Our consensus borne out of free will becomes the guideline and hence we want to live with the American Justice System.
All we want to do is follow Qur'aan that stands for justice, fairness and equity. Imam Bukhari and the other great Imams must be appreciated for the incredible work they have done in purging hadiths that were not authentic. There is a lot more that needs to re-evaluated, whatever contradicts Qur'aan and the practices of the Prophet must be discussed and understand it, or be done with it. Apostasy and divorce are consistently misapplied.
Again, the intent of putting together Sharia was to provide guidelines for serving justice, and it is not divine as it was manufactured by men for men. Over the period of time, it has fallen into the hands of Wahhabi, Talibans and their likes. Who mercilessly and ruthlessly punish the innocents, that is very much against the grain of Qur'aan.
http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2009/06/no-shariah-in-america.html
Jazak Allah Khair
Mike Ghouse
Salam,
ReplyDeleteDear Mike, this is my 're-send'. If you missed my first post, here is the
missing file, if the content didn't appear agreeable hence you didn't publish,
your call, you are the moderator.
Wassalaam
Khalid
************************
Salam,
Would anyone, including Mike, care to answer why quranc Laws are supposed to be
applied on Muslims only? Does it happen similarly in US or anywhere in the
'civilized' (?) world? Can there be two sets of Law in a Nation-State? Since US
is one of the few developed country which, mercifully, awards Capital
Punishment, would its court award this punishment only to those who choose? Does
it mean a European will get life imprisonment while the poor American Citizen
will be sent to gallows for a similar crime?
What strange a logic, really? So in any country where Quranic Laws are applied,
if I steal, my hands will be chopped off but the fellow non-muslim will be given
a mild prison sentence and then an official pardon may even release him sooner
than expected! Wow! Thus non Muslims will be Free to gamble, fornicate, live-in,
drink, charge Interest, open bars, make X-rated movies and spread mischief (The
Devil wants to do just that- Al Quran) among Muslims and society as a whole but
Quranic Laws will not be applicable to them. Imagine, my night club is shutdown
by the police but next door neighbour's is thriving- and both indulge in exactly
the same sin!
Allah the Lord of the Worlds-not Muslims' only- revealed the Message as a mercy
to Mankind and for its Guidance and declared that in Qisas there is life. The
same Lord then commands us muslims that blessing arising out of applying Quranic
Laws are meant only for muslims. Wow! Strange the Lord, stranger the inferences.
Quranic Laws are good for us muslims and what is good for muslims is good for
everyone. Would Mike disagree?
Muslims have two choices while living in this world. One is to treat the society
as a fertile ground to invite people to Islam through wisdom and wonderful
preaching and character or, if they are fortunately living in an Islamic
country, to apply Quranic Laws on thereselves. We need not be a hypocrite
(Mudhab Dhabeen baina Dhzalika- Al Quran).
The judicial orders in Muslims countries, particularly Iran and Saudi Arabia,
are often cited and derided in this group for being cruel, ridiculous. I am not
saying that these two countries are Quranic. But one must not forget how a
champion of Liberty and Fraterinity talked out to exonerate the murderers of 250
odd libyan children. This is justice that Mike is so proud of. Yes it works for
him. He knows that tomorrow if he flies a fighter and kills thirld world pigs
(humans, slumdogs?) he will not be tried, he will infact be decorated and the UN
will sit like an un (negative to everything).
Wassalaam
Khalid
Assalam-o-alaikum,
ReplyDeleteThe shariah is a man-made construct that came into being almost two centuries after the emergence of Islam; this is a fact that usually gets lost on most everyday Muslims to whom the shariah is erroneously propagated (by Political Islamists and fundamentalists) as being a wholly divine law.
What amazes me is the fact that this article by NFP (which, BTW, is briefly but elegantly written) is being published in Pakistan----and as is apparent from comments by several readers following the publication of the article---it is being well-received in a tone that seems to spell "I wanted to say exactly the same thing but never had the courage to say it". I am amazed because, had someone written the same article in the pre-9/11 era, the author could have been in deep trouble.
The author brings home an important point—the whole corpus of the so-called “Shri’ah†is entirely subjective and is largely *man-made*. It is mostly based on *he said/she said* stories (ironically they call these stories “evidencesâ€) and has very little to do with Qur’an. There are many examples in the “Shri’ah†to prove this important point which can be brought to bear if needed.
I, however, do not agree with the author that the “Qur’an is silent†about certain things. It tends to imply that—ma’azallah—Allah did not know what was to happen in post-Qur’anic revelation times so He had to be ‘silent’, or that Allah simply forgot to mention certain things. We should never lose sight of the fact that Allah has called the Qur’an “completely detailed book –6:114†perfectly preserved in and through time from here to eternity (9:15). Therefore, there is no question of Qur’an’s silence on any issue of any sort—period. If we can’t find the solution to our problem at hand in the Qur’an, it’s because we did not look hard for it. The all-Important concept of “Ijtihaad†(evolution in development of law) is a logical result of ‘deep reflection’ upon the spirit of the Qur’an that leads to solutions.
Those who study the Qur’an in *reflection mode* as the Qur’an enjoins them to, know full well that the Qur’an almost never delves into specifics—it only provided PRINCIPLES. Principles never perish--specifics do.
Wassalam,
Irfan
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteKhalid, Hussain and Shamim
ReplyDeleteSharia laws are not divine, if you believe that they are, that is your choice, they are made by men with the intent of serving justice. Sharia laws are no doubt influenced by Qur'aan, but there is a huge human element in it, which misses the Mercy that Quraan is flooded with.
The Personal Sharia helps one follow his relationship with God like prayers, festivals, fasting, zakat, hajj and other rituals, which most Muslims follow including me, where as the Public Sharia deals with more than one person and is subject to human fallacy and cannot be universally applicable. It needs Ijtihad and it is hard to come by.
The recitation of Bismillah is not for God, it is for us to understand its value and make it a part of our life, an average Muslim perhaps says it over 50 times day, it is such a beautiful prayer we are blessed with. The Sharia laws of Taliban, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, some laws of Pakistan and Malaysia are not based on equity and Mercy. I am positive, very few Muslims want to live under those laws, not me and not a majority of Muslims. Hence for us, the American Muslims, our civil laws serve justice and we have no need for Shariah laws
It looks like your comments are becoming personal, especially the one in the last paragraph. This group exchanges are about the topic and not me or you.
Original postings and comments at:
http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2009/06/no-shariah-in-america.html
http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2009/05/5000-reward.html