Farewell Sex with Dead Wife -- discussion forum

Posted at www.WorldMuslimCongress.org and WorldMuslimCongress@yahoogroups.com  - to be a member, just send an email to WorldMuslimcongress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

First of all, Our Christian and Jewish members have said it well, one sums it,  “Mike, You have put this out on your group's email and the lie has been exposed. Since apparently any leader of a mosque can write a "hadith" - it has been discovered that this is not Islam - just some leader's opinion. Thanks for being open - better to expose lies than ignore them or cover them up.”

If we don’t condemn this,  it gets to be believed that it must be true, since no Muslim raised the voice against it. It is necessary to condemn the wrong things first, rather than let it grow and grow.

Secondly, I have appended the original note below, and the notes from Sheila Musaji and Khalid Azam about their find on the bogus nature of it, and have just added the comments from Gehan, Arif, Hasan, Irtaza and Jazoo to a few others from yesterday.

Gehan – my apologies for not responding to Arif’s note before you did. As Muslims and members of the civil societies we cannot stereo type any Muslims. Arif, there are bad dudes among all of us, and bad moments within each one of us. Gehan’s comment about your note is right on! Please refrain from stereotyping any one.

Nadeem – the question is not whether anyone believed or not in the report, stuff like this is out on the net, the question is if any one condemned it or not. Alhamdu Lillah, we have, even though it is false, we have gone on the record that it was a wrong fatwa. There is awareness about it.

Jazoo – there are many false fabricated Hadiths in circulation out there, you asked for it, there are two quote from Hasan and Irtaza below - Kanz al-‘Umal  - intolerable Hadith about the Prophet. It outraged me to no end, and I had to sit and pray and ask God to give me guidance.  You read it if you have the stomach. For you and I, it is a fabricated Hadith, for others, it is not, it is in the book – that is all they know. I hope you can see differentiate between the perceptions and realities.

Jazoo, you and Nafis did not like to know about these and did not want to see it published… but it is out there and we simply cannot bury our heads in the sand.

By the way, I have written the article on the topic and Dr.Imam Zia Shaikh is reviewing and will be adding his take on the topic – his latest book “silencing the critics” is available on Amazon, it is a book worth reading.  We have to acknowledge and refute the lies, if not they will be going in circle un-checked.

Mike Ghouse

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From Gehan

With all due respect Mr Arif Khairuddin ... I find your comment very derogatory of Egyptian Muslims ... not to mention biased of your own, since you seem to only give credence to fatwas coming from India, Syria etc ...

You may want to call the EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT stooges ... BUT NOT EGYPTIAN MUSLIMS or for that matter Al Azhar, the oldest and most respected Islamic University .....!!! I take great exception to what you say!!! especially if you do not understand the politics of what is going on at present ... you may want to check the previous messages in this chain to find out that it was NOT TRUE, and certain western media thrive on perpetuating such "untruths" ...

HONESTLY!!!!

Gehan

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From Arif Khairuddin

Edicts from just and muslim countries have sense. Based on my experience, Fatwas from only 4 organizations should be binding: Deoband, Nizamal Ul Uloom, both from India, the one in South Africa and the one in Syria. Basically, anything which is harmful to living things is Haram in Islam. And a dead wife is 'Ghayr' Mahrim to a man, so he should not even look at her! By virtue of previous two statements it is abhorable to even think about such absurdities!

Egypt is a stooge of special interests, one must expect muslim defaming fatwas coming from there! You may recall another Fatwa from Egypt banning the handling of Banana and Cucumber by women!

May Allah(SWT) give sanity to these mischief mongers, Amen!

Sent from my iPhone4

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AOA, One of the strategy to malign the image of Islam is to spread misleading stories about it's followers, or distortion of the facts about the teachings of the Islam in itself. I am hoping that most of us did not fall for this story. http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/334222/20120427/egypt-s-farewell-intercourse-law-news-reportedly.htm Best Regards, Nadeem Zaman

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Salaam,

The story was not accurate at all. No one raised the question in Egypt, although there was one Imam in Morocco who made a statement on this over a year ago. I have written an in-depth discussion about the entire story

About that Supposed Egyptian Necrophilia Law

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/about-that-egyptian-necrophilia-law/0019097

God bless,

Sheila Musaji

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Amina Jindali

Egypt’s MPs deny existence of sex-after-death law, confirm early marriage draft

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/04/30/211238.html

Members of the Egyptian parliament responded to the uproar caused by Egyptian and Arab media reports about a new law that would allow a husband to have sex with his dead wife within six hours after her death and denied existence of any such draft. “This is indecent and nonsense. The whole issue is unacceptable. It is even unacceptable to give any statement to media about this issue,” Islamist MP Mamdouh Ismail told Al Arabiya. The news about passing the so-called ‘Farewell Intercourse’ law by the country’s Islamist-dominated parliament was first reported by Egyptian state-run al-Ahram newspaper and Egyptian ON TV on Tuesday. It was picked up and analyzed by Al Arabiya English a day later, following which international media picked up the story.

EGYPTIAN RIGHTS OFFICIAL SAYS ‘FAREWELL INTERCOURSE’ LEGISLATION WAS NEVER PROPOSED NOR DEBATED

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/05/01/474265/egyptian-rights-official-says-farewell-intercourse-legislation-was-never-proposed-nor-debated

Last week, ThinkProgress and other news outlets reported that Egypt’s parliament was considering a controversial law allowing a husband to have sex with his dead wife within six hours of her death. Newer reports show that this story originated from Egypt’s state-owned newspaper, Al Ahram, a newspaper with a long track record of “devoting hagiographic and occasionally utterly frabricated coverage to [former Egyptian President Hosnu Mubarak] and his regime,” reports the Christian Science Monitor’s Dan Murphy. His report adds that Mervat el-Tallawy, the head of Egypt’s National Council for Women, “issued a statement today that says she’s concerned about legislation that may harm the position of women in Egypt, but that there was never any ‘sex after death law’ under consideration, let alone one she complained about.”

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Mike,

We rightfully condemn our Imams and Alims whenever they do something obstinate. Remember another case just like sex with dead wife? We exploded when an Egyptian high level Imam commented that women should breastfeed unrelated adults in certain circumstances. But trust me whatever they do normally has a theological support. Thye are only following those.

There are not one but two Sahi Hadises that record Prophet advising women to breastfeed unrelated adults. Similarly, there is another record of the Prophet having sex with his dead aunty inside the grave ! It is not in our 23,000 Sahi Hadises nor in 16,000 Shiite Hadises but in Kanjul Ummal, a collection of 40,000 Sunni “Sahi” Hadises. This book was considerably used to create many violent Sharia laws.

Simply remember Imam Zia’s comment that FGM is cultural. He bypassed at least ten Islamic roots that I quoted. That way you can never defeat FGM and likes.

The Egyptian scenario proves that we have many miles to go. Blaming the Imams/Alims/Al Azhar University without addressing the theological root will certainly fail us, as it did for centuries.

Hasan.

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alamun Alaykum.

There is no such thing in the Quran as farewell sex with dead wife.

However, as always, you will find anything you want in the hadith books.  The enemies of Prophet, as stated in the Quran,  were heavily engaged in writing all the bad stuffs and attributed them to the Prophet.  They added some good stuffs with bad stuffs and created hadith books, so that no one can understand the satanic trics! 

[6:112] We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

There is a hadith that exists in Kanz al-‘Umal by Mutaqi al-Hindi andAl-Hujja fi Biyan al-Mahujja, an authoritative text on Sunni Doctrine, by Abu Qassim al-Asbahani.

According to this hadith, Muhammad took off his shirt and placed it on a dead woman and “lay” with her in the grave.  The buriers proceeded to bury the corpse and the prophet with dirt, exclaiming, “O Prophet, we see you do a thing you never did with anyone else,” to which Muhammad responded: “I have dressed her in my shirt so that she may be dressed in heavenly robes, and I have laid with her in her grave so that the pressures of the grave [also known as Islam’s “torments of the grave”] may be alleviated from her.” 

Thank you and may God guide me,

Muhammed Irtaza

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Mike WS A disgust on making a mountain out of mole for no apparent reason other than championing the Islamic ideology without knowing an iota of Islam, is not personal attack. Be a gentleman and to show you are a decent person...Cite the false hadith with complete quote. Pl dare not lecture me on ethics and code of conduct on these forums...spreading the demeaning disinformation about Islam and Prophet of Islam in between the lines as casual talk is not acceptable and its below moral for someone who still pretend to be Muslim. Jazoo

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AA

Khalid, Saala and Nafis;

Your responses are appreciated.
We have at least three choices in responding to falsities like this

1. Don't even read it.

2. Not doing anything about it, wich may cause it to multiply on the net, then
it will be too much of a fire to handle. The ones who know about it, have a
responsibility tp speak out.

3. condemning the wrong up front has its own merits

A. At least those on the margins will not believe it
B. A debate will follow and the truth will surface
C. A lot more crap will surface, and it has. there is a Hadith that says prophet
did it, naoozubillah
D. As Muslims, shall we remain silent about false Hadiths and let the issue
remain in the market?

Ofcourse, we do not have a body to put an end to this, as a result we have
allowed perpetuation of these issues. Should we not speak up at least in our
own nucleus?

Condemning is the right thing to do, finding the truth and solutions is even
better.

JAK

Mike Ghouse

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Egypt 'necrophilia law'? Hooey, utter hooey.

'Necrophilia law'? Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, kids. At least until there's like, you know, some proof.

By Dan Murphy, Staff writer / April 26, 2012

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2012/0426/Egypt-necrophilia-law-Hooey-utter-hooey

Update: Further research showed there was no validity to the claim that Egypt was considering a "sex after death" law. I followed up with a piece on April 30.

Today, Egypt's state-owned Al Ahram newspaperpublished an opinion piece by Amr Abdul Samea, a past stalwart supporter of the deposed Hosni Mubarak, that contained a bombshell: Egypt's parliament is considering passing a law that would allow husbands to have sex with their wives after death.

It was soon mentioned in an English language version of Al-Arabiya and immediately started zipping around social-networking sites. By this afternoon it had set news sites and the rest of the Internet on fire. It has every thing: The yuck factor, "those creepy Muslims" factor, the lulz factor for those with a sick sense of humor. The non-fact-checked Daily Mail picked it up and reported it as fact. Then Andrew Sullivan, who has a highly influential blog but is frequently lax about fact-checking, gave it a boost with an uncritical take. TheHuffington Post went there, too.

There's of course one problem: The chances of any such piece of legislation being considered by the Egyptian parliament for a vote is zero. And the chance of it ever passing is less than that. In fact, color me highly skeptical that anyone is even trying to advance a piece of legislation like this through Egypt's parliament. I'm willing to be proven wrong. It's possible that there's one or two lawmakers completely out of step with the rest of parliament. Maybe.

SEE ALSO – IN PICTURES: Behind the veil

But extreme, not to mention inflammatory claims, need at minimum some evidence (and I've read my share of utter nonsense in Al Ahram over the years). The evidence right now? Zero.

There was a Moroccan cleric a few years back who apparently did issue a religious ruling saying that husbands remained married to their wives in the first six hours after death and, so, well, you know. But that guy is far, far out on the nutty fringe. How fringe? He also ruled that pregnant women can drink alcohol. Remember, alcohol is considered haram, forbidden, by the vast majority of the world's Muslim scholars. Putting an unborn child at risk to get drunk? No, that's just not what they do. Whatever the mainstream's unpalatable beliefs (there are plenty from my perspective) this isn't one of them.

It's important to remember that the structure of the Muslim clergy is, by and large, like that of a number of Protestant Christian sects. Anyone can put out a shingle and declare themselves a preacher. The ones to pay attention to are the ones with large followings, or attachment to major institutions of Islamic learning. The preacher in Morocco is like the preacher in Florida who spent so much time and energy publicizing the burning of Qurans.

Stories like this are a reminder of the downside of the Internet. It makes fact-checking and monitoring easier. But the proliferation of aggregation sites, newsy blog sites, and the general erosion of editorial standards (and on-the-ground reporters to do the heavy lifting) also spreads silliness faster than it ever could before.

Follow Dan Murphy on Twitter.

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From Mike Ghouse

I am writing an article on the subject, and hope to get it corrected and endorsed by our Imams and publish it.

Normally, I ignore these loonies (article below). However, enough of us need to condemn this for a record. As the President of the World Muslim Congress I condemn it, and asking Muslim Scholars to condemn this ruling in Egypt that a man can have farewell sex with his dead wife.

I am also asking our Egyptian friends to verify the veracity of this piece below.

If you know any Imams and Muslim Scholars who would like to review the article and become co-authors, please have them send me an email to - WmcArchives@gmail.com

Those clerics who find sexual relief through pornographic Khutbas about the transparent hoors, and the sex she gives (You Tube is full of them), and the clerics who find relief imagining disgusting acts of sex with a dead person, tend to focus on passing these gratuitous laws.

Just as it is wrong to slap the Catholic clergy with sexual misconduct for the acts of a few, it would be wrong to stereotype all clerics whether Egyptian, Iranian or Saudi..

Thanks for sharing this, and I will not be surprised if Hannity will not call me on this. Think about his, who feeds the right wing Media?

Mike Ghouse

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Mike
- - - - -
(214) 325-1916 | MikeGhouse is committed to building a Cohesive America and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day. He is a professional speaker, thinker and a writer on pluralism, politics, civic affairs, Islam, India, Israel, peace and justice. Mike is a frequent guest on Sean Hannity show on Fox TV, and a commentator on national radio networks, he contributes weekly to the Texas Faith Column at Dallas Morning News and regularly at Huffington post, and several other periodicals across the world. The blog www.TheGhousediary.com is updated daily.