Motamar AlAlam AlIslami, Ahmadiyya Muslims and the World Muslim Congress.
http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2011/02/muslim-politics-ahmadiyya-muslims-and.html
http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2011/02/muslim-politics-ahmadiyya-muslims-and.html
An effort was made to connect Motamar AlAlam AlIslami and the World Muslim Congress. The response from Motamar was “your organization has Qadianis too and Qadianis are considered non Muslims as such there cannot be an alliance with your organization - Sorry “. I understand the politics involved in bringing Muslims together.
When the Qur’aan burning incident in Florida was announced, we took a pro-active role and wrote the following:
Quraan Burning, an appeal to Muslims
http://wisdomofreligion.blogspot.com/2010/09/quraan-burning-appeal-to-muslims.html
http://wisdomofreligion.blogspot.com/2010/09/quraan-burning-appeal-to-muslims.html
A prominent group of Muslims liked this piece and asked me to reduce it to 600 words to run it as an ad in New York Times and get translated in at least 5 languages and publish in the local papers. The idea was to mitigate Muslims reaction around the world. We got the work done and had an endorsement from Muslims of all Shades including Ahmadiyya. The inclusion of Ahmadiyya endorsement turned the “Men” from going forward. It was disappointing to the core, an appeal they considered will bring positive changes was sacked because of their prejudice towards Ahmadiyya. Does anyone has a gut to stand up?
My role Models are Prophet Muhammad, Jesus Christ, Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King. What I learned from them was a simple fact; If you do something right, meaning something that does not benefit you but benefits others, people will question you and the men in power will oppose you, never think for a moment that you are alone, God is with you when you care about his creation.
The thoughts of compromising surfaced many a times and were even encouraged; dump the Ahmadiyya vocabulary from my work and I will have a ton of support and funding to go forward. You can call whatever you want, I chose not to compromise, I will do my share of the work to build cohesive societies without discrimination towards any one of God’s creation.
I consider the greatest sin on earth is discriminating others because of how each one of the 7 billion of us looks, works or talks. As God told Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to just do his work and it is up to others to receive it. With all my flaws, Alhamdu Lillah, I am committed to do my share of work. I hope someday, at least in America, our future generation will see the value in coming together as Muslims regardless of our hues, as humans regardless of our religion for doing good and knowing each other (Q49:13).
It’s amazing how people are brainwashed, the Pakistan Government declares them to be non-Muslims and many (but not all) Muslims instantly change their heart, as if they don’t have their own mind and keep building on it. The virus has reached the free Indonesian people as well, even Bangalore, my home town is not free from this divisive politics. Is your religiosity anchored in denying others their religiosity?
Americans are no exception, whatever the Bush Government put out, many a Americans believed in it, when Reagan called the Russians an evil empire, a lot of Americans believed in it and looked at the Russians in that manner. Again, no nation or people are free from this bias, Jesus had said the eternal truth, that no one can cast the first stone. We have to be truly free people and be independent of what the Government or the Media bombards us with.
The world has indeed become a global community. Everyone is a neighbor to everyone else; we aspire to nurture the concept of good neighborliness in the world. Our advisory board will be represented by individuals from every faith. It is time for us to be equal citizens of one world, our home. This is a major paradigm shift in how the religious organizations would be conducting their business in the coming years. Our Mission is to work for a world of co-existence through inclusiveness and participation. (http://www.foundationforpluralism.com/WorldMuslimCongress/Articles/Mission-Statement.asp )
I hear the words of Mahatma Gandhi, “keep working.”
Mike Ghouse committed to building cohesive societies and is available to speak on Pluralism, Islam, Cohesive Societies, Peace and Justice. His work is listed in 3 Websites and 22 blogs at http://www.mikeghouse.net/
Mike Ghouse committed to building cohesive societies and is available to speak on Pluralism, Islam, Cohesive Societies, Peace and Justice. His work is listed in 3 Websites and 22 blogs at http://www.mikeghouse.net/
# # #
REFERENCES
You are welcome to review over 1000 articles on Islam and co-existence on the blogs, but a few related to Ahmadiyya Muslims are enclosed here:
Appeal to Indonesia about Ahmadiyya Muslims
http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2010/09/appeal-to-indonesia-about-ahmadi.html
http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2010/09/appeal-to-indonesia-about-ahmadi.html
Muslims condemn murdering fellow Ahmadiyya Muslimshttp://theghousediary.blogspot.com/2011/02/muslims-condemn-murdering-ahmadiyya.html
One Islam for Ahamdiyya, Bohra, Isamilia, Shia, Sunni and othershttp://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2010/04/there-is-only-one-islam.html
Ahmadiyya Muslims Among Muslimhttp://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2010/03/ahmadiyya-muslims-among-muslims.html
Ahmadiyya Muslims, what next?http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2008/04/ahmadiyya-muslims-what-next.html
You are welcome to join the discussion group by sending an email to :
WorldMuslimCongress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
WorldMuslimCongress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Mike Ghouse - First ever meeting of World Muslim
ReplyDeleteCongress and other meetings are held in Mecca where Qadanis do not want to go, that may be reason of their exclusion. Cannot do any more. - Almighty is the Judge of the day of Judgment - Almighty bless our seven billion family to Embrace PEACE (Islam) and Shun wars - Amen - God luck - God bless
It would be a great service if you could examine the aqeedah of Ahmadiyya movement. It is very likely that they (Ahmadis) have to either clarify or correct their aqeedah pertaining to the finality of prophet-hood after Muhammad (PBUH). This in result can facilitate their integration into Muslim mainstream.
ReplyDeleteI hate calling non-Muslims to those who claim to be the Muslim but since I am not a qualified scholar/jurist I cannot certify them in either way. I have many friends who are Ahmadis and my 30 years plus association with them reveals that in general they are decent people but their beliefs have never been convincing to me. I have personally read some of Mirza Sahib's books but did not feel any divinity. Yet I never treated them as outcast.
There declering as non-Muslims in Pakistan was not done by a dictator's stroke of pen but through a lenghty religeous and legislative debate and process. While I see merit in declaring their beliefs as un-Islamic, I feel ashamed that they were treated un-Islamically afterward by our Muslim brethern. This is the only just fight that I can pick on Ahmadis' behalf.
I am not as eloquent as you are yet I hope I have explained my position to you. God bless you for tolerating me every now and then :))
Tariq
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTariq, I am so happy you touched on three most critical elements:
ReplyDeleteThis in result can facilitate their integration into Muslim mainstream.
I hate calling non-Muslims to those who claim to be the Muslim
This is the only just fight that I can pick on Ahmadis' behalf.
This paves the way to find solutions, I am speaking in their national conference and will bring this up for discussion. We all need to work on understanding the real differences. Thanks for the note, it is encouraging to hear from a man of your stature.
Please be assured that what transpires between you and I will remain as such, we have to find ways to build bridges and keep individuals off from the discussions.
Thanks
Mike Ghouse
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Mike. I must admit that my knowledge of Ahmadiyya is superficial. But I'm learning :) I'll spend this sunday afternoon collecting and reading more detailed information.
ReplyDeleteHowever it is clear that their human rights are under threat.... And human rights violations are always unacceptable. Whatever the objections mainstream muslims may have against Ahmadiyya, they can never justify violence.
Just like we have the Shia, Shia Imami, Sunni sects getting divided into Wahabis,etc, I do not see anything wrong with the Ahmadiyaa sect. They have never caused any problems, I believe, within the Islamic or Religious gatherings.
ReplyDeleteYoshua, the contentious issue is that the Ahamdiyya consdier their leader Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed as the Messiah and some say he brought in addititional revelation to improve the human kind. The other Muslims see it as de...valuing their tradtion, which says Prophet Muhammad was the last prophet and no more reveleations were to come and that Hazrat Ghulam Mirza is not a messiah. Had Government of Zia Haq (dictator of Pakistan) not declared Ahamidiyyas to be non-Muslims, the few sheephish Muslims of Paksitan would not have had that problem, now their religion is based on denying others their religion. It is suprising to see how many, still less, Pakistani people are sheepish to believe in this.
ReplyDeleteShoket, they live their own lives like every one else. However, they are denied to call their place of worship a Masjid, and they cannot greet another Muslim Salaam. I am taking this up, because it is a shameful part of Muslim culture (not Islam, as it is anti-Islami) and I will do my part. It is certainly not to support ahmadiyyas, but to strip the evil from Islam.
Mike Sahib, I agree with you and your sentiments to uplift true Islamism is commendable. Islam is a religion of peace love and unity and the Holy Quran does prove that but the mullahs have caused much unrest by misquotations.
ReplyDeleteShoket, it is not just a Muslim Phenomen, it is there with all humanity no matter what religion they wear. Many of the branches of Christianity do not consider Mormons as Christians, they were indeed persecuted and killed once, even Catholics were harassed and persecuted in America. Thank God the laws of our country prevent American Mullahs like Robertson, Falwell and Hagee from imposing their brand of religion on others.
ReplyDeleteWhat we need in Paksitan, Indonesia and Bangladesh (Where Ahmadies are persecuted) is to have the rule of law prevail, one law fro all, then things will get better.
Dear Din Shahed
ReplyDeleteWith due apology you are committing the same sin as the person to whom you are replying and also the Moulvis who have issued the Fatwa against your Jamahat as Kafirs. They called you as Kafirs and reciprocally you are calling them Kafirs too. They based their Fatwa on the premise that you believe in a prophet which they do not believe. Why all of you cannot live and let live. Let anyone believe in a stone, which he can see, or in an entity for which there is no criterion except blind faith.
Let us stop worrying about faith and start doing something good to ameliorate the miseries of humanity. Religions have created enough and havoc in the world. Let humanity prevail.
And please shorten your replies. Just limit yourself to the email instead of preaching on this forum, I request.
Ghulam Yusuf
As Salaam to you all,
ReplyDeleteA simple question must be asked of all Muslim's, in that have they recited the Kahlimah of "There is no god but Allah", which is requested of all believers within the Glorious Qur'an. Now if all Muslim's have recited this to become Muslim's, then whom but Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala can say whom is not a Muslim by their interpretation of what Islam is or not.
Let us take the Sunnah of Salat as seen by all Muslim's. There is the fard part of Salat required by Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala but whom will say what extra Salat undertaken is accepted or not. If we do it because the Prophet (pbuh) did it, then is from our heart or from our mind as an action just because he did it, or do we do it for our Lords sake in love of Him and Him alone? I undertake extra Salat in service of Him and not just because the Prophet (pbuh) did it and it certainly comes from my heart and love of Him.
Any one who labels himself as anything other than just being a Muslim has wandered away from the path of truth, for in their very actions they have set up a division between themselves and all other Brothers and Sisters in faith. If they have set themselves a label stating that we alone have the truth and all the others are being mislead, then it is them who are misleading themselves. We are but Muslim's plain and simple, so get used to the truth as defined by Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala.
Wa Salaam
Mahmood Tahir
What Mr Yusuf has written is just looking at a serious matter in a simple way. He does not know what havoc the Ahmadis have done to the Muslim Ummah through false propaganda.
ReplyDeleteMr Yusuf has unnecessarily demeaned the role of religion .We know what secularism and materialism have done in the last two hundred years in terms of corruption, exploitation of poor people and nations ,spreading of vices and immorality. These are no solutions, these are diseases. The solution is moral behavior and life which only religion can bring if applied properly.
Please read the attached article, if you like.
Shah Abdul Hannan
Shah,
ReplyDeleteThe Wahhabi and Taliban ideology (not Muslim or Islam) is doing more damage to the idea of Islam, idea of peace and justice and they are causing the right wingers in other groups to hurl insults against Islam.
On the other hand the Ahmadiyya Muslims are doing to uplift the image of Islam by doing good things in the neighborhoods they live.
The question is are you free from government influence? Are a few Muslims free to think independently? Just because the dictator signed the law to declare Ahmadiyya not to be Muslims, many a Muslims have come to believe in it. Had it not happened, none of this would have come about. I urge those Muslims to free themselves from shackles of igorance and set the example of caring for life, respecting for life that God says in so many ways in Quraan.
I am speaking a conference about issues facing the minor denominations within religion and will learn how they have handle it.
ReplyDeleteI'm Muslim. I'm living in Indonesia. I'm really so sad for what's happening here. I myself feel so sad to know that we, the people, try to rule others using their own point of view. All of us, both Islam or Ahmadiyah worship the same God. D...iscriminating others is an awful crime. We don't have any right of Judging. It's all God's. God is always be with those who believe in Him. God never teaches us about killing, harms, etc. It's written in Quran that God only be with those who makes no harms to others. My religion is mine. Yours is yours. As long as, we do good things, I do respect all religions. And I prefer to respect an Atheist than a man who believes in God but still makes harms to others. Peace begins from each of us
ReplyDeleteMike, indeed Ahmadiyya relates to Islam as Mormons relates to Christians. Good comparison! They are not the same, but they are closely related.
ReplyDeleteOne reason why such related religions often clash is proselytizing. I had all sorts of missionari...es at my door, in an attempt to convert me. I don't hate them for it, but it can be annoying if someone gives you the feeling that you are a lost soul that has to be saved... :)
Yoshua, I can see the prosleytizing aspect within Christianity, indeed, about 15 of us from different religions meet once a month for lunch and we rotate the church. Invariably the Mormon Rep says, none of us will be involved in proselyti...zing... interesting now that you made the point.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I am not sure if the Ahmadiyyas make an effort to convert the other Muslims? I know they don't but have to verify it. But certainly the representatives of Christianity and Islam are aggressive proselytizers, as if that is all their purpose in life is. Neither Christ nor Muhammad said to convert people, they said to guide people to the righteous path.
Indeed, the Prophet shared God's word that you need not worry about the religion you follow, and its specific - Jews and Christians and others need not worry about God, God knows what is in ones' heart. Religion was secondary here, but being a good human was primary. Prophet Muhammad appealed to his own uncle to convert and he did not, God tells the Prophet, your role is to share what you know and it is upto others free will to choose.
In reality there is no need for any one to proselytize, but we all need to work together to create a better society, where we respect the god given uniqueness of the other and that is religion to me, and that is Islam to me.
I was born to parents who are members of Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat. I always thought I was a Muslim but after reading all this it looks like some people don't think I am one.
ReplyDeleteThroughout my life I have tried my best to follow all requirements of Islam (from Holy Quran, Hadith, and Sunnah). What should I do to be accepted?
Kind Regards,
Mrs. S
Can I recite Shahada? La ilaha illallah, Muhammad ur Rasulullah". Am I a Muslim now? Or do I have to go and kill an Ahmadi child or burn their property? Is that what the Holy Prophet Muhammad would do?
I know someone who steals, drinks, and has committed adultery but everyone considers him a Muslim. If that were Islam then I would rather be a non-Muslim :(
Kind Regards
Look! Lets use our brains! Is there any reason why Muslims dont want the Qadiani/ahmadiyyas to call themselves Muslim in public? Some may be guided by intolerance only. But to many the reason is that they want to protect the Muslium communi...ty from conversion based of false advertisement. If they honestly claimed, "Yes! according to our beliefs, we're indeed Muslims but except us, all the Muslims consider us to be out of Islam" then there would not be a problem--- only Muslims who want to leave Islam would go to them. But the problem is fraud and deception--- they fraudulently convert Muslims into their religion or sect or whatever u may call it.
ReplyDeleteeven in USA, its illegal for Scientologists outside the mainstream church to call themsleves scientologists. did u know it? They enforce the law as the name Scientologist is trademarked/copyrighted to their Church.
also in UK, it is the Chief Rabbi who decides if someone is Jewish. If he can do so, why cant the parliament of Pakistan or the governments of other countries?
There was a brouhaha in Bangladesh and the Qadianis, US govt and many others claimed that Qadianis r being persecuted. Well they were not being persecuted in the practice of their own religion--- they were being forbidden by the "agitators" only from publicly claiming that they r Muslims and converts others through that fraud and decept ion.
also they were being forbidden tro call their houses of worships mosques and mislead the public. How is their religion being harmed if they call their house of worship "Ahmadiya house of worship"? In Islam there is no strictute that u must call a house of worship a mosque/masjid. there r many other synonyms: jami (ie assembly hall), in bengali (juma-ghar) and many others--- so they wont lose their religion if they call it "ahmadiyya house of worship" or something else
Please reefer your remarks ''I understand the politics involved in bringing Muslims together'' in response to my comments
ReplyDelete“your organization has Qadianis too and Qadianis are considered non Muslims as such there cannot be... an alliance with your organization - Sorry “ As explained first and subsequent meetings are healed mostly in Mecca and for the people who denies to go to mecca, how you can force them to come and join Motamar AlAlam AlIslami (World Muslim congress) meetings. It is in no way politics, it is their choice not to be in mecca for attending meetings.
also they were being forbidden tro call their houses of worships mosques and mislead the public. How is their religion being harmed if they call their house of worship "Ahmadiya house of worship"? In Islam there is no strictute that u must call a house of worship a mosque/masjid. there r many other synonyms: jami (ie assembly hall), in bengali (juma-ghar) and many others--- so they wont lose their religion if they call it "ahmadiyya house of worship" or something else
ReplyDeleteChief Rabbi of UK is not just a rabbi, He's a UK govt officer
so if the govt of pakistan creates a Muslim BOard and they declare the Qadianis non-Muslim, will that be OK to u, yoshua?
the UK govt uses the Chief Rabbis classification to determine who is a Jews IN ORDER TO give govt services to the Jews eg preferential admission to a govt-funded Jewish school
remember that the UK govt uses the Chief Rabbis classification to determine who is a Jews IN ORDER TO give govt services to the Jews eg preferential admission to a govt-funded Jewish school.
A chief rabbi, or a Muslim board, Roman-Catholic bishops, the counsil of churches, etc... they all exist in most countries. But they are *not* part of the government. They are *recognized* by the government as a medium between the ...religious community and the government.
ReplyDeleteThey have no legal authority. They cannot make a government favor one religion over the other. They cannot make the government impose "religious laws".
There are countries where religious authorities are intertwined with the government, but right now the prospect for these governments don't look very good... (refering to Algeria, Morroco, Libya, Jordan, Yemen, Iran...) Politics and religion should not mix.
I am a Muslim - Prophet Muhammad PBUH is Muslim -
ReplyDeleteThere is no reason to add denominations. Simple way is to follow the leader Prophet Muhammad PBUH. There is no place for politics in following Islam.
I look into that. I can imagine that there are holes in the system. And I'm also aware that clever people will exploit these shortcomings for their own benefit. Such things should however not be possible. Constitution and law must be independent from religions.
ReplyDeleteI found it very fast. Indeed it seems that the UK allowed this school to give preference to Jewish applicants -- by law!
:-O
Shocking. In most European countries such a school would never get 1 cent from the government... But then the Britis...h stull use pence and pounds instead of cents and euros. They were always an odd bunch...
Quran / God / Allah's audience is mankind -
ReplyDeleteDenial of the commandments is personal action to be answered to God, We the people does not have any authority to make judgments.
Ahmadiyis have chosen to be out of main stream,
that is their choice, your attempt to bring them in main stream will be resented by them.
Civility, Islam, national and International laws
prohibits interfering into other business or to create disturbance in others life. Ahmadiyis attempt to convert us to Ahmadiyya religion is a violation of Civility, Islam, national and Intern...ational laws, that has to stop. Christens and Ahmadiyis push very hard to convert us by
saying that we will go in the hell if we don not convert, that is insane, unless that stops, others will act likewise resulting in unnecessary conflicting situation.
Haji, that is something that intrigues me: is there evidence that Ahmadiyya has an *aggresive* conversion policy? I don't know. That is why I already brought up the issue of proselytizing (see some post higher up) :)
ReplyDeleteIrshad, Yoshua and Haji,
ReplyDeleteYohsua, I know the Ahmadiyya community fairly well and I have visited their mosques thrice, had broken the fast with them in Ramadan as a part of visiting all the mosques... and have spoken to two interfaith gathe...rings...they do not agressively proselytize at least with the Muslims as some of the Muslims are belligerent towards them.
Irshad, thanks for sharing about the story of chief Rabbi of UK, I am amazed that it happens in a democracy. That does not make it right, the Israel lobby can make anything happen, if not the representatives congressman and senators will pay for it and will be harassed. The world condemns occupation in Israel, the US and UK do not have the guts to do the same. We have to go beyond and find what is righteous. By the way I am one of the supporters of Israel and defenders of Jews and Judaism but have spoken against the wrong things they do as individuals and Israeli Government.
However, in Islam the central authority is God, no one but him/her/it judges in the matters of faith. He alone judges who is worthy of his grace or not, what appears sinful to us may not be to him in the overall scheme of things. Even Prophet Muhammad will not come to your rescuce if you you have wronged. There are sayings of prophet to back this up as well. As a society you can judge the rapist, theif, adulterer etc and punish them, but not one's faith in God.
Mik:
ReplyDeleteAs regards Ahmedis, I think the right approach would be to talk to one of their learned person or invite him to join this discussion group. I have an Ahmedi living in our neighborhood. He tells me that Ahmedis believe in, and recite, the same Quran that was revealed on Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), they do not have any other or different Quran. He recited the Qalima for me that was exactly the same Qalima as we recite and according to him they do their 'salat' exactly the way we do. The only difference probably is in the interpretation of some Ayahs of Quran where they say a prophet (without a revealed book), subordinate to Prphet Muhammad, can come to propagate the deen of Prophet Muhammad. The way I understand him is that the only difference is in the status of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed. They say he was a prophet of Allah whereas we do not.
Rashid.
Rashid,
ReplyDeleteIndeed, I picked up a copy of the Quraan from the Ahmadiyya Masjid, and it is the same as in any one of the mosques; shia or sunni. You are right again, a few verses are interpreted differently. That is the case with every one, while 99.99% of Muslims interpret the verses as respect for humanity - a few, i.e.,less than 1/1000th of 1% interpret in radical terms, guess what media reports? There are thousands of Christians, Jews and Hindus that say and write beautiful things, guess what the media picks - the bad guys among them.
They read the same Kalima and pray exactly the same way as the Sunnis do.. I have prayed with them at least three times.
This is a political ploy by a few who wants to have a weak enemy that they can harass. If they have the guts take it up with the Talibans or the Wahhabis...We all have to work for this, at least remove the belligerency towards Ahmadiyya, it is not a healthy thing. The Ahmadiyyas on the other hand are uplifting Islam.
I will invite the Ahmadiyyas to join the discussion as more and more Muslims are taking an inhterest in this
In a hurry (In Karachi) I went in one mosque
ReplyDeleteto pray, many people approached me to say this is Qadani Mosque and asked me will I still like to pray their, I replied yes as the land belongs to Allah not to any one else and I ...prayed their by myself.
My son have one friend, he is Qadani, My son and him are friends for over 35 years, he use to pray with my son in our Mosque, they never had a problem.
In my world wide Business life (Steel, Ship Breaking & Trading) I was never bothered by Qudanis - However on facebook they taught that I am easy target because of my non denominational Muslim Beliefs, they bothered me a lot which left me with no choice but to delete every one who was bothering me, by asking me to change my religion.
I suggested you to join hands with Motamar AlAlam AlIslami and (World Muslim Congress) but fact remains Qadanis refuse to go Mecca and want us to change our religion from Muslim to Qadani, that is against
all laws, thats why I had to drop the Idea.
As far as human rights are considered all are equal and no one should be harassed including me because of my beliefs as a Staunch Muslim and Muslim alone with no denomination - For a person like me who have represented all the Muslims of the world, does not suit to be denominational, I want to remain Muslim only MUSLIM following my only leader Prophet Muhammad PBUH.
Leave me alone - I am answerable to Almighty no one else.
Alhamdu Lillah Haji,
ReplyDeleteYou expressed my words, I am a Muslijm and just muslim with no denominations prefixed or suffixed. The only Islam I know is the one taught by prophet Muhammad. Division was likely to happen and indeed it happened as prophesized by the prophet.
The big umbrella for Islam with the widest meaning is belief in one God (one really means onness of humanity, universe, people and life) to function cohesively with the God given diversity..
I will have to verify about the proselytization, first of all it is political rather than spiritual. We all have the responsibility to make better humans out of us, that was the real purpose of religion. Then again if all the Ahamdiyya do that, it will be wrong, but if a few did because of your openmindedness, we have to discount that, as it is statistically insignificant.
We specialise in countering the anti-Islam propaganda of the Qadiani Ahmadiyya in the West, especially in the UK and the US. The Lahori Ahmadiyya share most of the same isolationist ideology, but are not confrontational or anti-Islam and do not believe Mirza GA to be a prophet.
ReplyDeleteWhile we fully support their human rights and harbour no hatred towards them, we consider them to be the Mormons of Islam. Just like the Mormons believe in Jesus in some form because Joseph Smith asked them to, similarly Qadiani Ahmadiyya believe (in their own way) in Muhammad(saw) and the Quran.
This is also very similar to Sikhs when they chose to be legally separated from Hinduism in 1919 and Bahaism that started off from Islam and became an independent religion.
It is the unanimous opinion of the Muslim Ummah that Qadiani Ahmadiyya are not Muslim and they attempt to counter and dilute the Muslim Identity. However, we wish them well and hope they realise that having a new 'binding teacher and prophet', they are much better off as a separate religion.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAkber,
ReplyDeleteI am committed to bringing Muslims together on the basis that Islam is about mitigating conflicts and nurturing goodwill to achieve peace and salaamat for the humanity. Among that humanity is a group called Muslims and part of the Muslims is Ahmadiyya group. For those who like to put Muslims in pigeon holes, I am a Sunni but in reality I am non-denominational Muslim, just the religion prophet taught.
Where did you get the idea that Ahmadiyya Muslim carry on an anti-Islam propaganda? It is a statement with no basis as I have been around them and I see no truth in the statement.
Joseph Smith did not place Jesus some form of Jesus, I am fairly close with all the communities and Jesus is a central figure to Mormons.
I absolutely disagree with your note about Sikhs separating from Hinduism, it is a different religion altogether and is nearly 400 years old. By the way 1919 was the Jalianwala Bagh incident.
Baha’ism is not a part of Islam, it is its own religion and they were persecuted by the fanatics among Muslims.
It is not a unanimous opinion that Ahmadiyya are not Muslims, in Pakistan there is a substantial percentage, and that prejudice and arrogance is creeping into Indonesia and Bangladesh and is hitting India too. We need to grow up and embrace everyone who is recites the Kalama.
It is wrong to think or say that Ahmadi-Muslims do not believe in the Finality of prophet-hood. The Fact is that we (Ahmadi-Muslims) Believe Muhammad (saw) to be the final Prophet of Allah & Holy Quran to be Last & final Book of Shariya. Ahmadi-Muslims believes in each & every word of Quran to be unchangeable & applicable till the day of Judgment. Unlike many other sects, we do not believe in Abrogation Phenomenon of Quranic Verses & yet are not considered as Muslim - it is really sad.
ReplyDeleteThe ONLY difference between Ahmadi-Muslims & other sects is regarding the coming of Imam Mahdi & Promised Messiah. Based on Quran, we believe that Jesus/Issa (as) survived crucifixion & later died like all other human Prophets. Thus we believe that the one who was Promised to come after the name of Jesus/Issa (as) was to be from the Ummah itself. Whereas other sects believe that Issa/Jesus (as) was PHYSICALLY ascended to Allah where he is still alive & he will Physically descend from Heaven.
Today, these are Ahmadi-Muslims who are tortured & persecuted for reciting لا اله الا الله محمد رسول اللہ
& offering 5 times daily prayers. It is too sad that Religious clerics & even Muslim Governments are erasing لا اله الا الله محمد رسول اللہ
from our mosques & are even Justifying this cruel act in live TV shows. For one of such Proof watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XynKJMo9MIE
could u pls clarify what do these qadianis/ahmadis want:?
ReplyDelete1. is it that they just want to be left alone to practice their religion? Then the Muslim leaders could discuss the framework in which they could do so. For example, they could ...call their house of worship "Qadiani House of worship" instead of Masjids, so that simple-minded Muslims r not mislead into believing that they r Muslims and become victims of fraudulent proselytism.
2. Or they want to compel the Muslims to accept them as fellow Muslims, so that they can proselyte them?
-Irshad;
ReplyDeleteWhat do they want? I can share what every human wants - to live a life they choose to and not be harassed. If you followed the case in Malaysia where the fantic binge among Muslims were denying Sikhs and Christians to call God" A...llah" as if they owned Alalh. Ahmadiyas cannot call their house of worship a Masjid? Now do the binge owns Urdu/Arabic Language? The word Temple is used for Hindu, Bahai, Buddhist, Jewish and other religions, thank God they are not figting over it.
I am appalled at the idea that Muslims leaders could discusss the framework in which they could do so. Sounds liks fascism to me! Where is the free will of Islam gone for these folks? the christians in INdia use traditionally Hindu names of God to sell their missionizing - the Hindus have not objected to it. Should they?
What do you call the Arab Christians if the called God, Allah and call their place of worship a Masjid, a Christian Masjid?
What will these owners of Allah, Muhammad, Islam and Muslims do if the Jews, Christians, Bahai and HIndus adopt Quraan reading as part of their curricullum? Deny them that right? Who are we do that? Allah is the master creator and no one owns him.
Please explain to on what basis are you denying the Ahmadiyyas to call themselves Muslims? Why don't they deny the Talibans and Wahhabis the right to be called Muslims? Fear of getting beat up? while the minority Ahmadiyya can be harassaed? The new generation will be more accepting and more tolerant of God given differences.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteso what is coming out is finally
ReplyDelete1. Those qadianis/ahmadiyas has the right to practice their own religion except the right to call their house of worship masjid in public, etc.
2. it is the right to call their house of worship Masjid is what ...they r fighting for, not the right to practice their religion
----------------
i call the qadianis kafir based on:
1. No recognized Muslim alim calls the Qadianis or Bahais Muslim. Its consensus of opinion (ijma).
2. No alim ie muslim scholar denies that Wahhabis or Taliban r Muslims, They may be sinner Muslims, they may be deviant Muslims but they r indeed Muslims. By the way, Im a follower of ahl alsunna wal jamaah scholars and consider the wahhsabis deviant (bidati). but every scholar admits that they're Muslim
pls dont beat around the bush:
1. Arab christians already call God Allah (ive heard that the Copts call God Rabb though).
2. arab christians dont their church masjid, but if they did, it would not create confusion.
because the religions r very different. No one will be deceived. the real issue is false advertising, fraud and deception
2. All educated bengalis know that the 1st person to translate the quran into bengali was a hindu named girish chandra sen. there has been many christian scholars of quran. none is bothered. Actually if a qadiani reads the quran--- there will be no problem (just as there has never been any problem with Jews or christians reading the quran) Again I repeat the real issue is false advertising, fraud and deception --pls dont beat around the bush
Its the fraudulent proselytizing by the qadianis --- thats what the mainstream Muslims oppose.
Mike Ghouse Irshad and Hanif;
ReplyDeleteI hope you believe in the Day of Judgment, and I also hope you believe that no one but God is the master of that day.
Regardless of what the Ahmadiyya are fighting for; you, me and fellow Muslims do not have the right to s...tart making judgments in the matters of faith – God is the sole authority on that day, unless, you have taken over his role; which no human can, particularly Muslims.
There is quite a lot of information in the article and the conversation at the beginning; I hope you get to read it.
As a human and certainly as a Muslim, I will stand up for their right to practice what they believe. A few right wingers have called Islam all kinds of names, but the good people in Christianity and other traditions have stood up against false information, although they may not agree with Islam.
I hope Muslims drop their bias towards the Ahmadiyyas and live their own life and stop harassing them. Remember, if you harass a minority, you are justifying and authorizing your majority to harass you, there is no end to it.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHanif,
ReplyDeletePlease have your kids or grand kids read the whole thread;
Just as this note is addressing you, the previous note addressed you.
Where did you get the idea that I am an Ahmadi and I am harassing you? That does not make any sense, any one of your kids can read and tell you that.
You write and I write, that is the most democratic system taht there is. You deleted comments from the face book that is you choice, but every thing you have written here is posted. I don't delete any.
Hanif, if you cannot aruge head on, don't get into the arguement and run away giving poor excuses. You are always welcome, you can call me names I still welcome you. that is just me committed to building cohesive societies, nurturing goodwill and mitigating conflicts.
Jazak Allah Khair
Haji,
ReplyDeleteIn my original story I did not mention you anywhere, its your own comments that you have shared your efforts to bring us together. I appreciate that.
We need to carry on a genuine discussion and it takes a lot of courage to face things squarely. You are welcome to face it at world Muslim congress every one is welcome; we have people from every faith as I have mentioned in the write up.
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ReplyDeleteI am posting this comment as a member and author of the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement (www.aaiil.org and www.ahmadiyya.org), which holds that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not claim to be a prophet, but a Mujaddid. Our leader Maulana Muhammad Ali (d. 1951) is recognised by other Muslims as having made invaluable contributions to Islamic literature in English. One of our leading figures, Khwaja Kamal-ud-Din, established a Muslim Mission in England in 1913, which served other Western countries as well. This mission was supported by other Muslims and was the main Islamic organisation in UK till the mid-1960s (visit: www.wokingmuslim.org).
ReplyDeleteHazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was praised by many of his contemporary Muslim leaders in India for his service of defending Islam against attacks by other religions. He was opposed only by the professional clerics of the Muslims. Many times he worked jointly with other Muslims in the cause of Islam.
Today Mu’timar ‘Alam Islami shuns you because you don't reject Ahmadis. Now read this. The same organisation held a meeting in Karachi, Pakistan in February 1951 (sixty years ago). After it finished, several of its delegates came to Lahore and called upon Maulana Muhammad Ali. The leader of the Turkish delegation wrote an article in English about his meeting with the Maulana. For details, visit www.ahmadiyya.org/books/m-kabir/mjk3-8.htm and scroll to the heading "Meeting delegates to the World Muslim Conference".
The Lahore Ahmadiyya leaders worked jointly with other Muslim leaders and organisations in pre-partition India (and in other countries) on common Muslim causes, a prominent example being in the movement for the creation of Pakistan.
Till 1974, the opposition to Ahmadis was not official but was confined to the fundmentalist clerics and their parties. Ahmadis (of our group as well as the "Qadiani" group) held high government posts in Pakistan. In 1974 Ahmadis were declared non-Muslim in Pakistan by the socialist, irreligious Mr Z.A. Bhutto's government (incidentally, he modelled himself on Chairman Mao of China), because he wanted to take for himself the popularity of the clerics among the masses by acceding to their demands.
Since then the propaganda has been instilled in Muslims' minds that Ahmadis are actually non-Muslims following a different religion from Islam. The masses believe what their religious leaders tell them. The educated Muslims, within Pakistan, and in Muslim communities in the West, are afraid to oppose the clerics because they have issued rulings that an "Ahmadi sympathiser" is as bad as an Ahmadi.
Today Muslims are like passengers in an aircraft being held hostage, in this case by their clerics and mullahs.
I apologise for the length of this comment, but there are many other points that can be made. Lastly, I refer you to a civil court case in Cape Town in South Africa, 25 years ago, when our movement filed a suit against the council of the Ulama for calling us kafir, and won an injunction that it is defamation. See www.ahmadiyya.org/sa-case/intro.htm for details of this case, its history, the evidence presented and the judgment.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI am posting my comments as an Muslim Ahmady,believer in Allah,His Angels,His books and His all Prophets and day of Judgement. My faith is between myself and my Creator,Allah.I don't have to take any Fatwas from any Mulla or from any Assembly to be a Muslim.If all the Assemblies of the world and all the so called Muslims declare me a Kafir, I don't become a Kafir, until my Allah declares so.If Pakistani Assembly declared Ahmadys as non-Muslims, it was according to the law and constitution of Pakistan .It was not according to the laws of Qur'an and Shariah.If a case is presented in the national assembly of Iran today about the Sunni /Wahabis/Ahle Hadit/Brailwis ,what do you think the assembly will declare about their religion;of course non-Muslims.What about the faith of the Shias according to the so called Alims of Sunnis. All of the Sunnis declare them Kafir.So do all Shias become Kafirs too.And what about all the Wahabis? Don't all the Brailwis call them Kafir.Pakistani Mullahs are Kafir makng machines.Have they left any body out of this. I would request Haji Hanif to find out whether he is still a Muslim according to other sects or a Pukka Kafir.Now a for the Ahmady Muslims,we believe in the Mehdi and messiah of the age as per the injuctions of our prophet Muhammad,PBUH.You have not believed him,so how come we become non-Muslims and you stay Muslims????We Ahmady Muslims believe in the holy Qur'an totally ,in each word of it, but most of the Sunny Muslims believe that many of the Surahs of the Qur'an are abrogated.Now who is the true Muslims just considering this fact only!!!!!On finality of the prophet Muhammad PBUH,we believe that he was the last law bearing prophet and Shariah brought by him is the last Shariah .Most of the Sunnis and other sects believe in the coming of the prophet Issa ASW, after the demise of prophet Muhammad,PBUH. Now who is believing in prophet Muhammad as the last law bearing prophet??? Of course the answer is Ahmady Muslims.So Mr.Haji, consider these points and hope Allah will guide you to right path.You have the right to believe or not to believe, but you cannot stop anybody from preaching real Islam to you.
ReplyDeleteIftikhar Sheikh
PART I OF III
ReplyDeleteHAJI, SALAAM
I earnestly request you to read the following in the sequence it is written; I care about you and your buzurgi. Please don’t loose your buzurgi for momentary issues.
1. This was the original “An effort was made to connect Motamar AlAlam AlIslami and the World Muslim Congress. The response from Motamar was “your organization has Qadianis too and Qadianis are considered non Muslims as such there cannot be an alliance with your organization - Sorry “. I understand the politics involved in bringing Muslims together. “
The conversation between you and I remained private, you were not mentioned in the above. I was cajoling and challenging other Muslim organizations to step up to the plate and match their talk of bringing Muslims Umma together with their actions.
By the way, just Google “world Muslim Congress” there are thousands of entries that will lead you to the World Muslim Congress.org, net, and .com, all the sites managed by the World Muslim Congress based in Dallas.
Indeed, you made the effort to connect the two organizations and I appreciate that, an effort worth appreciating.
2. Once the article was posted you wrote this comment on the face book.
“ First ever meeting of World Muslim Congress and other meetings are held in Mecca where Qadanis do not want to go, that may be reason of their exclusion. Cannot do any more. - Almighty is the Judge of the day of Judgment - Almighty bless our seven billion family to Embrace PEACE (Islam) and Shun wars - Amen - God luck - God bless “.
3. There was another posting to which you responded. And in note which I have copied word for word, you tell every one who you were, you wrote your full name, blog, phone numbers etc.
Tariq said, well said, this explains true situation. Almighty is the Judge of the day of Judgment - Almighty bless our seven billion family to Embrace PEACE (Islam) and Shun wars - Amen - God luck - God bless - Haji M Hanif
http://wmctrust.blogspot.com/
1 773 255 9860
1 847 922 4010
hajih12@gmail.com
4. I wrote a comment, then you did not wait and jumped to write another comment,
Mike Ghouse - Thanks for understanding to pick conman ground -
World Muslim Congress: Alternative To Caliphate? - There is no kingship in Islam, Kingdoms in Muslim world is problem. -: http://on.fb.me/eRxXnz
We cannot force people to go to Mecca.
Haji M Hanif
PART II OF III
ReplyDelete. You come back and write again, I did not, you wrote this
Please reefer your remarks ''I understand the politics involved in bringing Muslims together'' in response to my comments “your organization has Qadianis too and Qadianis are considered non Muslims as such there cannot be... an alliance with your organization - Sorry “ As explained first and subsequent meetings are healed mostly in Mecca and for the people who denies to go to mecca, how you can force them to come and join Motamar AlAlam AlIslami (World Muslim congress) meetings. It is in no way politics, it is their choice not to be in mecca for attending meetings. “
….. several comments later
You deleted your comments.
You did not understand the rules of conversation – you write, I write, and Your write and it continues… you did not like what I wrote in response to you and you deleted your own comments and ran away, to which I wrote, it is not your cup of tea. If you have to stand up for some thing, you stand firmly and not dilly dally or run away deleting.
You did not like my comments and started saying
“ you are harassing me”
“ you are an Ahmadiyya”
Read back your own statements, it is all here
Hanif Bhai, if you don’t understand anything, please ask for clarification instead of accusing and blaming others. The proof of all the conversation is right here. Please read it again.
You, me and every one is here to find solutions – I have published all your rantings and accusations because I have the God Given Guts, and yet you write in the last three comments that I will not publish. What you wrote was unproductive, yet I have accommodated you because you were hurt and out of respect for you.
PART III OF III
ReplyDeleteTHIS IS IMPORTANT
Hanif Bhai, please let me know who harassed you to convert to Ahmadiyya, I will take your case personally and stop them, if this is not true, you owe an apology for spreading things that are not true.
=============================================================
By the way YOU will not find many GUTSY Muslims, thank God I am one of the few, I am blessed that Allah has removed all the fears from my heart. . Many a Muslim Organization do not have the guts to speak the truth, they are afraid of what the few fanatics will do to them, they are afraid of the Fatwas and they are afraid of stoppage to the funding.
Thank Allah, No one can push me to say a thing, or appease any one, neither any one writes my paycheck, nor one does favors to me… Allah is the only one I fear. I have nothing to gain from any one, nothing to gain but hear crap. I expect that, that is model all my mentors have given; from Prophet Muhammad down to some of my friends have endured abuses and have gone it alone. Insha Allah, I will too.
I hope to end our conversation at this point. Please continue to write, if it is productive, I will publish, if not please do not. Thank you.
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ReplyDeleteSalaam Haji,
ReplyDeleteMy friend, my buzurg, together we can find solutions.
First, let's face the tough things and then solutions. I am merely responding to you. You don't write any more and I wont respond any more. Fair?
You claimed those were not your words and deleted all your messages on the facebook, and also deleted that particular messages to me that there cannot be alliance with your organization. I just looked for that message, it is deleted. That is not nice of you.
But yet, you kept writing note upon note and when you did not like my response on your later notes you went into denial mode.
One more item before we go the solutions.
In the preceding comment you wrote you are not head of the Motamar, that was fine, but several comments before you wrote you were the Executive President of Motamar. You were volunteering that information un-asked.
SOLUTION
What happened has happened, let's find solutions. I like your take and stand that you are a Muslim with no denomination and I share that with you.
I will stand by you and every one who is harassed. I am willing to reach out to the entire Ahmadiyya community in America and Canada to stop harassing any one including you. If you were not harassed, thank God, we will move on with our lives.
By the way for your information, I take pride in standing up for every one who is pushed around or harassed. That is what a Muslim to me is, to stand up against oppression and to speak out for the oppressed no matter who they are as humanly as I can and it will be never 100%.
Jazakallah Mike, It is so great to read this article and comments. I am an Ahmadi Muslim, I believe in One GOD, God of Muhammad (SAW), God of Musa, God of Abraham, God of Jesus, God of Krishna, God of the whole universe and whole humanity, I believe in all the prophets of Allah, I believe that all of them came with divine guidance to uplift humanity, I believe in the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as the Last Prophet, on whom the last Book of Holy Quran was revealed, which i recite every day, infact I am teaching my kids living in US, to learn and understand and act on the Quran, Alhamdolillah my 2 kids have finished the Holy Book x2 and 3rd one who is 5 year old trying to finish the Quran, I believe that there can be no new law can come after Quran. I also read and act on the ahadith of the Holy Prophet and act on his sunnah, I also acted on his Hadith in which he said when messiah should come, you should give my salam to him even if you have to go over the ice slabs, So my grandfather did. All i did is in accordance with the sayings of the Holy Prophet. I say DAROOD on the Holy prophet every day. I being an Ahmadi Muslim am law abiding citizen of a country as I was told to be in the Holy Quran, I feel the pain of humanity just like they are a part of me. I say the kalima, I say the 5 daily prayers, i Observe fasting, I will be going to Hajj inshallah after my parents grant me permission, I pay zakat and charity for the poor. By doiing all this I thought I am a Muslim. But Alas, I am a muslim in a nonmuslim country, but when i travel to a muslim country i am forced to be a nonmuslim, rather I am told by law that you are a Qadiani, or mirzai or what not, now If I go to Indonesia I will be called by something else which they have not proposed any name to it. Does it sound familiar to you. When Holy Prophet ( SAW) brought Islam as a new religion, the meccans told the muslims, do not call yourself muslim but call your self as "sabi". Then the muslims 1400 years ago were burned, their houses were burned, they were brutally killed, women were sheared in half by tying them to two camels and then making them run in opposite directions, pregnant women were killed, Bilal was put on hot sand in summers of Arabia, They were mobbed, they were put in social boycott for 3 years in Sha'ab-e-abitalib. All these are happening to us these days in Pakistan/indonesia/bangladesh. I thought Islam came to uplift humanity and bring the human race to a new level of decency, but what happened to us, where are we going. If I go back to these countries I will be killed/ looted/ threatened and so on. A governor is killed and his killar is being called a Ghazi.Alas, there may be some people like MIKE to tell them it is all wrong, let us live and let live others.
ReplyDeletePersonally I have not studied about the Faith and Theology presented by Late Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadiani the founder of Ahmadia Jamat. I am a Sunni Hafafi Muslim and I do not believe that Late Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadiani was the promised Ma...hdi Alaihissalm (i.e. the Messiah before the End Time). I have heard from our clergies who have studied the theology and practice of the Ahmadia Jamat that the Quadianis (i.e. the Ahmadia Jamat) believe that all those who do not accept Late Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadiani as the "Mahdi" are "Kafir" (i.e. not-Muslim). Kindly impartially study their real faith and inform me your findings.
ReplyDeleteKazi, I will have to find this out, those who are doing it are as swrong as those who are caliling them non-Muslims. I hope, when we call some one an alim, they are scrutinized thouroughly - theiir writings and their speeches. Any none-sense like that must be a reason to strip the title.
ReplyDeleteBrother Mike : Allah is with you ,you have shown true humanity logic and compassion , you are not alone keep up the good work , your words are truth , as the Quran states there are as many rds to the Devine as there are breaths ;-)!!!
ReplyDeleteTo me ...a Muslim is one who has submitted his will to God , the rest is all just brands and labels , so in essence any follower of any religion sects etc that has surrendered to the god consciousness of his heart is a Muslim , the rest is just religious bigotry and fascism ;-)!!! God / Allah / krsna or whatever name for the Devine has unlimited eternal names bless u and protect u always !!!
People are forgetting that the veryessence of religion is insaniyaat / humanity , which is the biggest crime against God all mighty !!!
The whole world is a mosque according to the quran so why shouldn't a qadiani be allowed to call his place of worship a mosque ???? What's the difference between the words masjid , temple , church , synagog ??? To me nothing but the same in... different languages of the world !!! How far have we blinded ourselves with so called knowledge that only makes us behave like a frog in a well ;-)!!!
ReplyDeleteThe prophet was an illiterate , it then surprises me how his religion has become one of so called knowledge and discrimination , when in fact it started of in the cave of hira as a religion of meditation contemplation surrender and devotion ;-)!!!! May God have mercy on us all from ourselves and the knowledge we assume to have !!! Amen /Amin /Aum :-)!!!!See More
Dear Kazi Azizul Haq sahib and Mike Ghouse sahib. You have heard from your clergy that Hazrat Mirza sahib declared those who don't believe in him as Kafir,is absolutely absurd. The problem with Muslim Clergy is that in order to prove Ahmady Muslims as Kafir,they have to invent lies like that so that innocent Muslims don't go near Ahmadis and find out that real Islam is what Ahmadis are preaching. The fact is that for many a years after Hazrat Mirza sahib declared himself to be a Mehdi and Messiah and that Hazrat Issa ASW has died like other prophets, Muslim clergy of his time brought Fatwas upon Fatwas against him and Jama'at-e Ahmadiyya as Kafirs. To which HAzrat Mirza sahib declared that I don't consider any Muslim to be a Kafir who doesn't believe in me, but according to the Hadith of our Master Prophet Muhammad SAW,anybody who calls a Muslim a Kafir becomes a Kafir himself.
ReplyDeleteI would humbly request you to read any book of Hazrat Mirza sahib and see for yourselves what he had been preaching.Now a days its very easy because all his books are available on internet.You can go to www.alislam.org and read his books as well as the books of all Khulafa-e-Ahmadiyyat and other scholars.
Iftikhar Sheikh.
Dear Haji Hanif sahib: You don't believe in any sect;fair enough.What would you say to the hadith of Hazrat Muhammad saw,regarding the Ummat splitting in 73 sects.All the sect would be Naari but one Jama'at.Assembly of Pakistan put a stamp on the truthfulness of the hadith of prophet Muhammad Saw,when they declared unanimously that all the 72 sects are together except for Ahmadiyya sect.What other proof do you need,Haji sahib.. I hope you believe in Prophet Muhammad and his ahadith.
ReplyDeleteIftikhar Sheikh
Brother Haji Hanif has said somewhere that he is a Muslim and prophet Muhammad Saw ,was a Muslim.Just believe in prophet Muhammad.True, but how you believe in prophet Muhammad is by believing what he asked us(prophesied) to believe in latter days. To believe in Messiah and Mehdi of the age.
ReplyDeleteRespectfull I disagree with Susanto Das that prophet Muhammad was an illiterate.The right word is unlettered.Illiterate means a person who has no knowledge or who is ignorant. Whereas prophet Muhammad taught thousands the true meaning of love of God ,Qur'an and Hikmat and cleansed them of their ills.I know Mr.Das didn't use this word in a derogatory way. I just wanted to clarify it.
ReplyDeleteIftekhar,
ReplyDeleteThis is to unlump Mike Ghouse from the statement you made, "Dear Kazi Azizul Haq sahib and Mike Ghouse sahib. You have heard from your clergy that Hazrat Mirza sahib declared those who don't believe in him as Kafir,is absolutely absurd." Exclude me from this commnet, it was not my comment.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnd in response to your article... You have created a position for yourself and have set out to do a certain sort of work which embodies inclusion of all who would identify themselves as Muslim. Those people and organizations know that this is the case when they read your writings. Just ignore their rants and postulations that you must change the wording of your statements. To do so would be to compromise the position you have taken.
ReplyDeleteYou don't need the people who are unwilling to change or even consider your position.
You need the people who are open-minded and who need the type of work you are doing.
Allah's Grace in all you do.
Fatima
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHanif,
ReplyDeleteIn the light of your note preceeding this, I ask you to consider making the following statement.
" We are all Muslims, not Wahhabi, not Shia, not Sunni, not Ismaili, not Bohra and not Ahmadiyya but just Muslims. As long as one believes in God and Prophet Muhammad, he or she is a Muslim, period.
Furthermore, Allah is the master of the day of Judgment and he alone will make that call who is and who isn't a Muslim; and no individual is responsible for the acts of other, nor any oneelse would be held responsible for one's action on the day of Judgment."
We need a few brave souls to start the movement and Haji, affirm the statement and make a committment to build a cohesive Muslim Community.
Mike Ghouse
World Muslim Congress
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ReplyDeleteHanif,
ReplyDeleteChanges are intiated by individuals, the first such example for Muslims was Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) he went against the establishment to do the right thing.
Most Muslims organizations are incapable of initiating changes, they rather follow the dictums of the funders than speak up the right thing.
Can you, me and each one of us reading this can make a personal statement, do we believe in in this? and If we do, can we state our personal opinion. It does not matter whether an organization agrees or not, but it does matter, to you, me or the ones that read.
" We are all Muslims, not Wahhabi, not Shia, not Sunni, not Ismaili, not Bohra and not Ahmadiyya but just Muslims. As long as one believes in God and Prophet Muhammad, he or she is a Muslim, period.
Furthermore, Allah is the master of the day of Judgment and he alone will make that call who is and who isn't a Muslim; and no individual is responsible for the acts of other, nor any one else would be held responsible for one's action on the day of Judgment."
We need a few brave souls to start the movement and Haji, affirm the statement and make a committment to build a cohesive Muslim Community.
Jazak Allah Khair
Mike Ghouse
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
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ReplyDeleteMESSAGES THAT HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL MESSAGE AND ADDS TO THE TOPIC ARE WELCOME.
ReplyDeleteHaji Hanif: Your dirt came out and I knew it would.You have balatantly used false orpaganda against the only tue Muslim sect,Ahmadiyya in a fashion of Mullahs about whom Prophet of Allah,Muhammad Rasulullah saw had said that they will bethe worst creature under the sky.I don't know if you belong to the same catagory ,I hope not.But you have sounded like them ,so I was a little apprehensive.As for the Kalima,you have tried and failed miserably that Kalima recited by Ahmadiyya Jammat is not Muhammad ur Rasulullah ,but (Allah forbid) Ahmad rasulullah. If that would have been the case, why on earth the Mullahs in Pakistan don't let us use the Kalima with Muhammad ur rasulallah.They say that sincethis is a Muslim Kalima so we wouldn't allow Ahmadis to use it.If you had a little sense you wouldn't say wha tyou tried to prove .Our Kalima is La Ila ha Illullaho Muhammad Ur Rasulullah and no power on earth can take it away from us.We would rather die at the hands of the Mullahs and their cronies,than leave this Kalima.You have quoted some Qazi Yar Muhammad Qadiani as saying some filthy language.Ahmadiyya Jamaat has nothing to do with such person or such writings.If you had read a single page of any book of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam ahmad sahib Qadiani, the Mehdi and Messiah of the age, a true lover and subordinate prophet to the master prophet,Muhammad saw,you would have not said things like that.You have also quoted that Ahmadi students clashed with some studets from Faislabad medical college.Yes there was a little fighting between the sudents instigated by the Mullahs and their cronies with the suppoert of agencies to unleash terror and murder and burning and lootings against innocent Ahmadis of other cities.Inthat clash how many ahmadis were martyred,houses burnt and businesses looted of Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis. I expected a little fairness rom you ,but I guess I was thinking wrong.You have also quoted prophet Muhammad saying that Muslims of his Ummah will become like Jews,ditto!!!. Haven't Muslims in general become like Jews. What Jews used to do was not believe in the Prophets and torture him and his followers.Haven't the Muslims proved by turning against the Mehdi and Messiah of the age and use the same tactics as used by the opponents of the prophets. You believe that only one sect is the true believer and rest of the 72 sect are Hell bound.So who is that sect.It is very easy to see in thelight of the Hadith of our prophet,Hazrat Muammad Saw.Who are the ones who are not allowed to preach? Who are the who are denied Haj? Who are the one not allowed to say Kalima? Who are the one who are not allowed to say their Masjid a Masjid. Only Ahmady Muslims,my dear only Ahmady Muslims, the true and sincere believers of Prophet Mughammad,saw.No body else on this face of earth. So if you don't believe in Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a Mehdi and Messiah,why don't you believe in the words of prophet Muhammad????If you do, then you will be Ahmady and nothing else.If you call yourselves a Muslim then you are supposed to follow prophet MuhammadSaw, otherwise either you are lying that you are follower or don't understand Islam.
ReplyDeleteIftikhar Sheikh
Haji Hanif: If you believe in the coming of prophet Issa asw, after the death of Hazrat Muhammad saw, then according to your belief, Hazrat Issa will be the last prophet,not prophet Muhammad saw.
ReplyDeleteBecause last is the one who dies last.
May Allah give you the insight of real Islam,Ahmadiyyat.
Iftikhar Sheikh
Iftekhar,
ReplyDeleteGlad you clarified the Kalima, there are a lot of myths created about Ahmadiyya Muslims, and I urge fellow Muslims to verfiy before holding a negative opionion.
There will always be disagreement about the Mahdi AS, and we have to let that hang out, as it is a belief. You cannot change one's belief. Neither the Ahmadiyya belief about Hazrat Mirza nor the other other muslims belief about Mahdi will change and there is no need to even attempt to prove or disprove. To each is their belief.
As far as the other basics, all Muslims from Ahmadiyya to Wahhabit hold dear similar basics. We need to focus on all the things we have in common and not hone on Mahdi.
There is no room for bias in Islam, even this statement, "You have also quoted prophet Muhammad saying that Muslims of his Ummah will become like Jews,ditto!!!. Haven't Muslims in general become like Jews." - There is nothing wrong being a Jew, what is wrong is if one does not follow the guidelines, it is those people the prophet had addressed not all the Jews.
NOTE TO HAJI
Your last few posts were verses from Quraan, they are good, but not relevant in the disucssion. I have 4 more of yours on hold, it won't serve any purpose.
Please post what is relevant.
Thanks
Dear Mike: I agree with you 100%.We have to agree on common things and that is exactly what Qur'an tells us .Allah tells Muhammad saw to tell Christians and Jews to let us get together on common things.This is the basics of the peace in the world,otherwise there are lot of differences between all nations,all religions,all cultures and even same religions.Of course there will be a difference regarding Mehdi and Messiah.Ahmadys have no problem with that.There is no compulsion in the religion.We can adopt whatever we like.No person has any right to judge somebody whether he /she is a Muslim/Momin or Kafir.This is Allah's domain,which Mullahs have tried to take over.We Ahmadys tell them to remain human being.Don't become Allah.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong being Jews/Christians or whatever religion.we have to respect all and should help all God's children.I was only referring to a Hadith of our prophet Muhammad SAW.I agree 100% that there is no room for bias in Islam.Thats the reason Allah sends His prophets to remove bias between people.
Iftikhar Sheikh.
Haji hanif said"meeting of World Muslim
ReplyDeleteCongress and other meetings are held in Mecca where Qadanis do not want to go, that may be reason of their exclusion. Cannot do any more. ".
What a big lie.Ahmady Muslims love to go to Mecca and Medina,the cities of our prophet Muhammad saw.Its the Saudi Government who puts Ahmadis in prison,if they go for Haj or Umra.If Haji has a little bit of shame ,then he will apologize for such blatant lie.
Iftikhar Sheikh
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ReplyDeleteHaji Hanif: Its not devil,its the truth.Don't be Summun Bukmun! Allah may open your heart and eyes.The Messiah and Mahdi has come.How long you are going to wait for Hazrat Eisa to descend from Heavens. No body has ever descended from Skies.Jesus PBUH has died like prophet Muhammad and Ibrahim and Hazrat Musa ASW.Qur'an is the witness for that,Suhaba of Hazrat Muhammad SAW are the witness to that.But whether you believe it or not,we are all human beings and we need to traet each other with respect without any prejudices.
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