Re: Muslims together - Ahamdiyya Muslims

( THIS IS NOT AN ARTICLE, BUT A DISCUSSION)

AA

Mateen and members of the discussion

Thanks for keeping up with the discussion, I have always longed for civil discussions among Muslims, and I am glad we do our best to carry that out at World Muslim Congress. Your contribution is appreciated as well. This should be the spirit of discussion.

You noted, "But please do not enforce Qadiani beliefs into Islam." First of all who is enforcing anything on any one? It is a mere discussion, however, If you meant, "don't share their belief" I can understand that and I am not sharing any one's belief, as all beliefs are their own.

May I ask, why reject their belief, and for what?
You have referenced books and research work on it,
but let's make it simple.

Did Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) say that his Ummah will be eventually split into 72 ( 73) groups? If it is a wrong Hadith, let me know. If he did say that, why are we not being inclusive? He did not tell anyone to ex-communicate those who do not follow the authority of his authorized agents. He did not even define the circle or daera of the 72 - 72 was just a metaphoric number to indicate too many.

Prophet did not know what is Sunni or Shia either, they did not exist then. All of us from Ahamdiyya, Bohra, Sunni, Ismaili, Shia, Sufi, Deen Muhammad, Wahhabi and other variations have over be 90% commonalities - with no more than two or three differences. There are those among us who put their foreheads on the graves of Aulia Allah,  believe that the promised Messiah has come, ask for help from others, other than Allah, there are those who have destroyed the house where Prophet Muhammad was born, it was a collective heritage of Muslims... we are different and we need to hold a large umbrella over all of us. Lets' reciting bismilla every moment mean some thing to us, let prophet be a rahmat to all of us, let one pray with hands folded, dropped or raised... they all worship Allah.

Ahmadiyya are not taking away anything from any one, they are living their own lives, indeed, their good work is enhancing the collective good works of Muslims. They have earned a good name around the US communities with their initiatives and they add value to the overall Muslim community.

My only gain from this effort is for us Muslims to earn the title of Amin, Kind, merciful and good human beings. Our stance towards Ahmadiyya Muslims takes away the fullness of goodness about Muslims. We have strayed away from being non-judgmental to judgmental beings. We have to do the inner Jihad and rid of our pettiness, ill-will and malice. Am I wrong? Are you willing to rise above the fray?

I am a Muslim, and I do not judge people and hope you don't either.

Jazak Allah Khair

Mike Ghouse
Muslims Together committed to build cohesive Societies

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Dear Mr. Ghouse, I am reading this discussion with interest. I am sorry to say, it appears that you and your participants of this discussion are unaware of the truth and facts about this topic. I suggest you and the participants should read a very informative and well researched book "Qadiani Mazhab ka Ilmi Mahasaba" by Prof. Muhammad Ilyas Burney of Usmania University, Hyderabad. This book (of 9944 pages)

which I have is published by Sheikh Muhammad Ashraf, Aibak Road, Kashmiri Bazar, Lahore Pakistan. This book, which was first started as a humble thin pamphlet (in 1352 Hijri) is now more authentic source about Qadianism. The writer quoted from only Qadiani literature. books, papers, magazines and other documents, some of which are not even known to an ordinary Qadiani. I am sure if you (I hope you read Urdu) and others after reading this book, will realised that "hein kuakab kuch, bazar aatey hein kuch" . Mr. Ghouse, I appreciate your good intentions of creating harmony among different faiths. But please do not enforce Qadiani beliefs into Islam. Let them enjoy their own path and thinking, they have the right to do so without

interfering in our religion. May Allah show you all the right path "..siraatal lazina 'an 'amta 'alay him,

ghairlul magzhuubi 'alaiy-him wa laz zaalliin, amen".

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To: worldmuslimcongress@yahoogroups.com; PakistaniAmericans@yahoogroups.com; dallaspakistanis@yahoogroups.com
From: MIKEGHOUSE@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 14:44:07 -0500
Subject: MuslimsTogether :: Re: Muslims together - Ahamdiyya Muslims (Nasrullah)

This will be posted to the groups.
Civil discourse is always welcome.

Thank you Mushtaq

Mike Ghouse

In a message dated 2/13/2012 1:29:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, mamalik50@aol.com writes:

Dear Mike Ghouse

Perhaps you are not aware that Ahmadi Khalifas label all Kalima Reciters as Kafir who do not believe i the Nabuwwat of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani. For more details click the following articles;

  Declaring other Muslims as outside the fold of Islam:

1.      Qadiani group declares all other Muslims as being kafir and outside the fold of Islam.

2.     Mirza Bashir Ahmad's book declares other Muslims as kafir and non-Muslim in Islamic law.

3.     But Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad regarded other Muslims as Muslims.

  They establish an autocratic khilafat, contrary to the teachings of Islam and of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad:

1.      Brief Review.

2.     Detailed article with references.

  Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not claim to be a prophet: A detailed section.

MUSHTAQ MALIK
mamalik50@aol.com

-----Original Message-----
From: MikeGhouse <MikeGhouse@aol.com>
To: worldmuslimcongress <worldmuslimcongress@yahoogroups.com>; PakistaniAmericans <PakistaniAmericans@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 13, 2012 12:52 pm
Subject: Re- Muslims together - Ahamdiyya Muslims (Nasrullah)

AA

Nasrullah Bhai,

I guess you missed reading my note from earlier... Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) listened to a variety of faiths, his faith did not change. As a follower, I am engaged with Atheists to Zoroastrians and every one in between, my faith in Islam has gotten stronger and stronger... not by denigrating or devaluing others faiths, but by appreciating them, that they also, like me, praise the God.

Ahamdiyya Muslim's pledge is the same La Ilaha Illalah Muhamaddur Rasool Allah as yours and mine. Irfan and I have shared more details... within each strand of Islam, we differ, Shia, Sunni, Alhle--- different things, Wahhabi, Ismaili and Bohra, we have to allow the difference of Ahamdiyya, we are all in this together with variation. Aren't we?

Shame on those Muslims who push God from his chair and take over judgment from him. I am answerable to God for my Aamals, just as you. No one is going to bear others burden. Is it wrong?

Declaring other Muslims Kafir is shirk, you are not God. You are committing a major shirk by declaring them wrong, and they are wrong as well to call other Muslims as non-Muslims. Who the hell are you or me to declare other Muslims not Muslims? No ulema, no scholar, no Imam has that right but Allah, do you agree with it?

When you can kiss ass with Jews, Christians and others, at least be nice to Ahamdiyya, it is the human thing and the right thing to do. Let them believe whatever they want to believe, what is it to you or I? What do you lose? Are you responsible for their belief? Your idea of Ahmadies going to hell is as legitimate as the idea of Christians believing (by the way they are a larger majority) that you and I go to hell if we don't follow Jesus? Does that make them right? Does it make you right?

I hope you understand the essence of Islam and Quraan, it is not a political entity, it is a deen that bring peace to mankind, it is universal, aalameen, all inclusive, all embracing religion.

Discussion is different than being judgmental, please become a discussant sans judgement...

Jazak Allah Khair

Mike Ghouse

(the previous notes is pasted below)

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Dear Mike,

Please add one more line and ask people to stop lying about finality of Prophet Mohmmad ( PBUH). You are the moderator and every thing discuss on this forum is your responsibility and you will be answerable at the day of judgment that you did not stop people who are lying about the finality of prophet ( PBUH). This is a very serious issue. if you are not clear about finality of Prophet Mohammad ( PBUH) then let us know.

Nasrullah khan

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To: worldmuslimcongress@yahoogroups.com; DallasPaksitanis@yahoogroups.com; PaksitaniAmericans@yahoogroups.com
From: MIKEGHOUSE@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:37:35 -0500
Subject: Dallas Pakistanis :: Re- Muslims together - Ahamdiyya Muslims

RASHID, AURANGZEB AND MOHAMMAD

What you do with your notes, and who you email is your business, but as a moderator of World Muslim Congress and Dallas Pakistanis, I have the responsibility to keep the discussion intact and not let it degenerate into a gossip, or accusatory exchanges. I have an obligation to keep this forum worth being members of.

Rashid Jahangiri - Please note that your comments will not be posted on the groups, as they are not discussions. If you write in civil terms, it will be posted. Please consider reciting ÇåÏöäóÜÜÜÜÇ ÇáÕøöÑóÇØó ÇáãõÓÊóÞöíãó (1:6) before you write.

Aurangzeb Khan - most of your postings get posted as long as you remain in the realm of discussion, when you resort to an un-civil language, your item will not be posted. Please consider reciting ÇåÏöäóÜÜÜÜÇ ÇáÕøöÑóÇØó ÇáãõÓÊóÞöíãó (1:6) before you write

Mohammad Mahmood - I pray for you to have a strong emaan. Do you know, following the example of the prophet I have had discussions with every religious scholar, and every time, my faith deepens knowing that every one is seeking the truth; and that is to find peace within and peace with others. I hope you have a strong enough faith to hear all points of view... if you are afraid to know about Ahmadiyya, you should not be a part of it. Please consider reciting ÇåÏöäóÜÜÜÜÇ ÇáÕøöÑóÇØó ÇáãõÓÊóÞöíãó (1:6) before you write.

As a Muslim, I have an obligation to speak up against injustice towards fellow beings, including Ahmadiyya, Shia, Sunni, Bohra, Ismaili and others. Justice is the core value of Islam, where there is justice, there is peace aka Islam. I hope you stand up for every one as well.

Some one wrote earlier, what you believe, most of it is by default. There are 2 Billion Christians and a billion Hindus - they are so because they were born in their faith and you are a Muslim because your born in your family. A good percentage convert as well, and most of it is their choice. If you were born in an Ahmadiyya family, you would have been one... denigrating them is not what Islam teaches. May God help you remove the bias, ill-will and prejudice you have against other human beings.

Jazak Allah Khair

Thank you.

- - - - -

Thanks for the note. As a Muslim, I'm involved in interfaith dialogue with people of all religions; wasn't that a tradition of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

Prophet had conversations with Christians, Jews and his own Pagan family members, in his own Mosque despite the fact that they had rejected everything prophet believed. Did he run off? Was he worried about other people's judgment? He even let them pray in his Mosque, their own prayers that he did not agree with, didn't he?

Didn't prophet teach us to speak with others in respectable ways? If he did not, I am okay with your approach towards Ahamdiyya.

I continue to speak and write in all places of worship and humbly share, that Alhamdu Lillah, today there are more Atheists, Baha'i, Buddhist, Christians, Hindus, Jains, Jews, Sikhs, Wicca, Native Americans and Zoroastrians who are less biased towards Muslims as they learn with me.

In the tradition of Prophet Muhammad, the peace maker, I am pleased to follow in his footstep in mitigating conflicts and nurturing goodwill. If I am dealing with every religious group, it would be wrong for me not to engage with Ahmadiyya Muslims. As a Muslim, I am conditioned to believe that Imam Mahdi will come someday, where as the Ahmadiyya are conditioned to believe that that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is the promised Messiah. I am sure you are conditioned a certain way as well. We don't have to be agreeing to be good to fellow Muslims. Other than this difference, I do not see much to fight over.

Many a Muslims kiss ass with Jews and Christians, but have a deep hatred for fellow Muslims; the Ahmadiyya Muslims.

If I were to kiss ass of conservative Muslims, I would have had a larger following, however, I am content with the majority, indeed an overwhelming majority of Muslims who are moderate and are sane people. They want to get along with everyone, don't want to be judgmental about others, and don't reduce Allah and Muhammad, from Rabbul and Rahmatul Aalameen to Muslimeen. You are welcome to do it, I have no problems with it. I believe in free will (Q2:256).

God is not yours or my property, and we do not own Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or Islam either – they are for the Aalameen, just like the air and water, they belong to all of us, every one of us. Neither you nor I can posses them and reduce them to ours.

I have an open mind to hear different points of view and there are many like me. If you are not secure enough in your faith, please don't read, just hit the delete button.

On Sunday, I am speaking at the Ahmadiyya Mosque in Allen at Noon about Prophet Muhammad, the ultimate peace maker. Any one is welcome to hear. If you organize a group, I will be happy to speak at your place. A part of it is at: http://www.indianmuslimobserver.com/2012/02/prophet-muhammad-pbuh-peace-maker.html


Jazak Allah Khair

Mike Ghouse

Mike Ghouse is committed to building a cohesive America and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day. A writer, thinker and a speaker and is available to speak on pluralism, politics, Islam, peace, cohesive societies and a variety of topics. Check out 4 websites and 27 Blogs indexed at

www.MikeGhouse.net. Current articles atwww.TheGhousediary.com